National Assembly Makes History As It Adopts Land Report

EADC

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#22
But how does this work now? can you claim anywhere? I am a Born native of Cape Town now do I have to go to Cape Town? or can I claim in Joburg as a refugee?

So many questions.
 

C4Cat

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#23
201:91

The opposition parties, who opposed this, also had members supporting the constitutional amendment. The many want this, who am I to disagree and to continue to disagree?

STILL, not a single item is mentioned to be 'amended'? No template, nothing. See, this isn't land expropriation, it is property expropriation.

Social democracy at work here which greatly leans to socialism and populism... I wouldn't be surprised to see the Zulus have their nationalism :whistling:
How do you get from "not a single item is mentioned to be 'amended'? No template, nothing" to " it is property expropriation"?
 

Fulcrum29

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#24
How do you get from "not a single item is mentioned to be 'amended'? No template, nothing" to " it is property expropriation"?
Uhm, because in current legislation it is property in general. There no land law, there is only property law. Do you believe that the amended constitution will state land or property?
 

Fulcrum29

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#27
But how does this work now? can you claim anywhere? I am a Born native of Cape Town now do I have to go to Cape Town? or can I claim in Joburg as a refugee?

So many questions.
This particular expropriation will only work in the public’s interest, this isn’t a land claim where an individual or group make a land claim submission which may take days to years to be processed which may take more days to years to conclude.

By expropriation, however, the state takes ownership, when amended without compensation, and then it will be placed in private ownership or held by the state in perpetuity which is therein still a redistribution program.

Legally, only the state may land grab, but many will be opportunistic and we all know how the Hermanus issue was concluded...

The land claims process will still continue, expropriation without compensation will not replace that program.
 

Fulcrum29

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#29
Doesn't matter what the legislation says... the looters will take whatever they want
The question remains, and it has been brought up one too many times in parliament, how will expropriation without compensation be DEFINED, is it land or property? In its current state, it is property and that includes any and every private asset a private individual or private entity owns.

Framework, non-existent, and then we have this adopted by parliament. The report doesn’t cover the questions nor the answers that the public, owning property, seeks. Crazy, politicians deciding what is best, what democracy?
 

Fulcrum29

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#32
The Constitutional Amendment Bill will be introduced on Thursday, they are moving this as quickly as possible to end Parliament on a high.

I want to see this policy overhaul…
 

Fulcrum29

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#34
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/...to-court-if-parliament-adopts-report-20181204

Land expropriation: DA vows to go to court if Parliament adopts report
The DA will go to court if the Joint Constitutional Review Committee's report, recommending that the Constitution be amended to allow expropriation without compensation, is adopted by both houses of Parliament.

The report will be considered by the National Assembly on Tuesday at 14:00, and by the National Council of Provinces on Wednesday at 10:00 after it was initially also scheduled for Tuesday.

"The DA has consulted with our lawyers and we understand the processes to follow. Should the ANC and EFF vote to adopt this flawed report in both the National Assembly and National Council of Provinces, the DA will not hesitate to approach the courts," said DA MP Glynnis Breytenbach said.

...

No chance of dismissal

She said there was no chance that the DA's case would be dismissed on the grounds that it was premature, as they would allow Parliament to conclude its work.

According to the DA, the CRC report has serious procedural flaws, specifically in relation to the public participation process which is mandated by sections 59, 72 and 118 of the Constitution.
Yes, it was premature. I am struggling to understand though, Parliament is already moving on Thursday with Constitutional Amendment Bill... how will the DA prevent this?

Since reading that Pierre de Vos article, or opinion, on this matter I don't really get this system anymore on Constitutional amendments.
 

Fulcrum29

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#36
They don’t have to push anything more than land by adding to legislation. Our law is clear on Property Law and what property is, it is more whether expropriation without compensation will address property in general which it will in its most basic representation in our law. I doubt that they will set out a separate clause as what may be expropriated or not, but rather by position on what may be expropriated or not.

The ANC did state at their December resolution that their policy position is, that they will primarily target vacant, unused and underutilised state land, as well as land which is held to be speculated on and indebted land, but a position may change and it may evolve as a policy.

I assume, that they will allow expropriation without compensation as a constitutional right and then amend other rights, Property Rights, to adhere to the process.

Just to quote

https://www.gov.za/documents/constitution/chapter-2-bill-rights

25. Property
1. No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of general application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property.

2. Property may be expropriated only in terms of law of general application

a. for a public purpose or in the public interest; and

b. subject to compensation, the amount of which and the time and manner of payment of which have either been agreed to by those affected or decided or approved by a court.

3. The amount of the compensation and the time and manner of payment must be just and equitable, reflecting an equitable balance between the public interest and the interests of those affected, having regard to all relevant circumstances, including

a. the current use of the property;

b. the history of the acquisition and use of the property;

c. the market value of the property;

d. the extent of direct state investment and subsidy in the acquisition and beneficial capital improvement of the property; and

e. the purpose of the expropriation.

4. For the purposes of this section

a. the public interest includes the nation's commitment to land reform, and to reforms to bring about equitable access to all South Africa's natural resources; and

b. property is not limited to land.

5. The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to foster conditions which enable citizens to gain access to land on an equitable basis.

6. A person or community whose tenure of land is legally insecure as a result of past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to tenure which is legally secure or to comparable redress.

7. A person or community dispossessed of property after 19 June 1913 as a result of past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to restitution of that property or to equitable redress.

8. No provision of this section may impede the state from taking legislative and other measures to achieve land, water and related reform, in order to redress the results of past racial discrimination, provided that any departure from the provisions of this section is in accordance with the provisions of section 36(1).

9. Parliament must enact the legislation referred to in subsection (6).
Much will be changed, but 4.b is to be. Expropriation without compensation will be deprived, don't see how they can keep that in there when they allow the amendment. This is only Property, there will be more to be changed.
 

Zoomzoom

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#37
The ANC did state at their December resolution that their policy position is, that they will primarily target vacant, unused and underutilised state land, as well as land which is held to be speculated on and indebted land, but a position may change and it may evolve as a policy.
If you believe this, then I have a nice bridge to sell you.

I want a list of those 200 morons who voted for this.
 

Fulcrum29

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#38

John Tempus

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#40
9)To our fellow South Africans, we say:
• There is still hope.
• The power to stop this destructiv lunacy is in your hands.
• The power lies in your VOTE.
• Mobilize your fellow countrymen to register to vote
• STOP THE VIOLATION OF OUR BILL OF RIGHTS SAVE OUR NATION.

You dont understand how constitutional changes work right ? If it is passed and written into the constitution before elections it does not matter who wins the elections. People will be grabbing land and to try reform the constitution again will take much longer than 10months not to mention the retarded 201 to 91 outcome in votes.
 
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