National Assembly Makes History As It Adopts Land Report

BBSA

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
9,983
#41
You dont understand how constitutional changes work right ? If it is passed and written into the constitution before elections it does not matter who wins the elections. People will be grabbing land and to try reform the constitution again will take much longer than 10months not to mention the retarded 201 to 91 outcome in votes.
They will not be able to change the constitution before the elections, hell they do not even know how they want to change it.
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
25,707
#42
They will not be able to change the constitution before the elections, hell they do not even know how they want to change it.
The Bill is introduced on Thursday, they know how they want to change it.

According to Steenhuisen parliament will only 'grapple' the Bill on the sixth parliament.
 

Lew Skannen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
225
#44
Great! No just to change the constitution! Almost there....

If the property market and banks though the conditions were difficult before, just keep an eye out on the next few months.
 

John Tempus

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Messages
607
#46
201:91

The opposition parties, who opposed this, also had members supporting the constitutional amendment. The many want this, who am I to disagree and to continue to disagree?

STILL, not a single item is mentioned to be 'amended'? No template, nothing. See, this isn't land expropriation, it is property expropriation.

Social democracy at work here which greatly leans to socialism and populism... I wouldn't be surprised to see the Zulus have their nationalism :whistling:
Idiots from all parties voted for this in order to get
They will not be able to change the constitution before the elections, hell they do not even know how they want to change it.
They wont have to. Do you think an opposition party will get 70% majority vote to unseat the ANC and roll back this whole constitutional change ?

Not going to happen, to get 201 votes clearly the DA and other parties also ended up voting for this so right now there is just a bunch of enemies sucking up for votes it seems.
 

BBSA

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
9,983
#47
Idiots from all parties voted for this in order to get


They wont have to. Do you think an opposition party will get 70% majority vote to unseat the ANC and roll back this whole constitutional change ?

Not going to happen, to get 201 votes clearly the DA and other parties also ended up voting for this so right now there is just a bunch of enemies sucking up for votes it seems.
What are you talking about, the constitution has not been changed?
 

ponder

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
72,091
#48
How do you get from "not a single item is mentioned to be 'amended'? No template, nothing" to " it is property expropriation"?
Section 25 of the constitution relates to property, all property and not only land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_Two_of_the_Constitution_of_South_Africa#Property
Section 25 enshrines the right to property, which is a standard international human right. The Section is very detailed, making it unique among human rights instruments. The Section amongst others covers arbitrary deprivation of property and compensation in great detail, which is in the context of the South African post-apartheid era and the Black Economic Empowerment program.

The Section states “No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of general application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property. Property may be expropriated only in terms of law of general application for a public purpose or in the public interest; and subject to compensation, the amount of which and the time and manner of payment of which have either been agreed to by those affected or decided or approved by a court.”

The Section makes detailed provisions on compensation by stating “The amount of the compensation and the time and manner of payment must be just and equitable, reflecting an equitable balance between the public interest and the interests of those affected, having regard to all relevant circumstances.”

The Section sets out the context in which these provisions may be of relevance, in stating “For the purposes of this section the public interest includes the nation's commitment to land reform, and to reforms to bring about equitable access to all South Africa's natural resources; and property is not limited to land. The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to foster conditions which enable citizens to gain access to land on an equitable basis. A person or community whose tenure of land is legally insecure as a result of past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to tenure which is legally secure or to comparable redress. A person or community dispossessed of property after 19 June 1913 as a result of past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to restitution of that property or to equitable redress.”
https://www.gov.za/documents/constitution/chapter-2-bill-rights#25

25. Property
1. No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of general application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property.

2. Property may be expropriated only in terms of law of general application

a. for a public purpose or in the public interest; and

b. subject to compensation, the amount of which and the time and manner of payment of which have either been agreed to by those affected or decided or approved by a court.

3. The amount of the compensation and the time and manner of payment must be just and equitable, reflecting an equitable balance between the public interest and the interests of those affected, having regard to all relevant circumstances, including

a. the current use of the property;

b. the history of the acquisition and use of the property;

c. the market value of the property;

d. the extent of direct state investment and subsidy in the acquisition and beneficial capital improvement of the property; and

e. the purpose of the expropriation.

4. For the purposes of this section

a. the public interest includes the nation's commitment to land reform, and to reforms to bring about equitable access to all South Africa's natural resources; and

b. property is not limited to land.

5. The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to foster conditions which enable citizens to gain access to land on an equitable basis.

6. A person or community whose tenure of land is legally insecure as a result of past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to tenure which is legally secure or to comparable redress.

7. A person or community dispossessed of property after 19 June 1913 as a result of past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to restitution of that property or to equitable redress.

8. No provision of this section may impede the state from taking legislative and other measures to achieve land, water and related reform, in order to redress the results of past racial discrimination, provided that any departure from the provisions of this section is in accordance with the provisions of section 36(1).

9. Parliament must enact the legislation referred to in subsection (6).
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
25,707
#49
Idiots from all parties voted for this in order to get


They wont have to. Do you think an opposition party will get 70% majority vote to unseat the ANC and roll back this whole constitutional change ?

Not going to happen, to get 201 votes clearly the DA and other parties also ended up voting for this so right now there is just a bunch of enemies sucking up for votes it seems.
As BBSA said, this is only accepting the report that validates a constitutional amendment. The National Council of Provinces is voting tomorrow on the acceptance of the report, if they accept, which is likely, the bill will be introduced on Thursday. Then the bill will only be argued by the sixth parliament according to the DA's Steenhuisen. The EFF seeks absolute state control over land (property) and that alone will be a volatile debate between the ANC and the EFF, but those without the 'vote' won't have much influence in parliament and will have to pursue through legal means.
 

jambai

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
680
#50
So who is the expert on how this will most likely pan out . Banks being very quiet . I don’t understand that nobody seen a draft amendment yet or where is it ?
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
25,707
#51
So who is the expert on how this will most likely pan out . Banks being very quiet . I don’t understand that nobody seen a draft amendment yet or where is it ?
If the National Council of Provinces accepts the report tomorrow then the Bill will be introduced on Thursday.

I am dumbstruck because the promotion of expropriation without compensation is extremely vague without context so I don’t even know how public participation has been adequate in the first place, ignoring that the government largely ignored public comment on the matter.

I know that they will target property... for flexibility and illustration of power when the need be.
 

Zoomzoom

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Messages
2,437
#53
1. Watch house prices tumble as people panic.

2. Watch investment (and jobs) vanish like a bar of chocolate in the hands of a chubby kid on a hot day.

3. Watch as the EFF and BLF are empowered by their 'victory' to further violence.

4. Wait for the realisation that absolutely nothing will change in the lives of the average South African who needs a job, not a piece of useless land they can't do sweet fanny adams with without training, money and support. IF they even get a bit of land!
 

thestaggy

Honorary Master
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
12,167
#55
Was always going to happen.

You all have to accept the fact that the ANC and EFF WILL destroy what is left of South Africa.

The genie cannot be put back in the bottle so the idiots that still think their Ramessiah can turn this around once he has delivered the ANC their election win are dreaming. They will have to go through with this or else their bluff will be called and the next election cycle will be even worse as the ANC will have to do or promise something even more radical to get their majority.
 

NarrowBandFtw

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
13,649
#56
their bluff will be called and the next election cycle will be even worse
Worse still: they won't be waiting for another election cycle, the ANC has removed their last two elected presidents after all ...

Tend to agree we're past the point of no return, sadly, only stuff-up being I'm in a good space professionally speaking right now and don't really want to leave that behind ... frog slowly boiling, yet fully aware
 

flippakitten

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
795
#57
sigh... the people rejoicing the most are the thieve in parliament that have a new source of looting and corruption to pillage for their own benefit.
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
25,707
#58
The media has been quiet today... The draft motion was debated this afternoon and there is very little noise. The motion was also adopted, 183:77. The Constitution is to amended by 31 March 2019.
 

ArtyLoop

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
3,078
#59
The media has been quiet today... The draft motion was debated this afternoon and there is very little noise. The motion was also adopted, 183:77. The Constitution is to amended by 31 March 2019.
Them media bosses probably banging down the doors of the emigration agencies, so neglecting their posts
 
Top