Natural Selection

Geoff.D

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This is my last post on this thread. Ponderer has ruined any possibility of holding a rational debate on anything to do with evolution on my BB.

I decided to read the Book by Berlinski, based on a recommendation from a colleague, who claimed that because the author was agnostic towards religion, his book was unbiased and a balanced view on the subjects of Evolution and ID. Unfortunately, one quickly realises, after the first 5 pages that despite his so-called credentials he is the last person on earth that should be writing anything about both these subjects. Nevertheless, I persevered and read the entire book.

Like someone has said about so many Youtube videos, it is very difficult to unread something. Never again will I read anything written about fanatics of any sort.

Wishing you luck with dealing with Ponderer. The mods are not going to do anything it seems. So there is only one way out, Ignore this particular annoying delusional idiot, and immediately abandon any thread he sticks his nose into.
 
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alloytoo

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You're still dodging the question. Afraid of getting caught and being made to look stupid?
I thank you for taking one for the team, by your description and the introduction I read, the book doesn't appear to be very appealing.

Perhaps we could discuss Greatest Show on Earth?

I thought it was very good.
 

alloytoo

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This is my last post on this thread. Ponderer has ruined any possibility of holding a rational debate on anything to do with evolution on my BB.

I decided to read the Book by Berlinski, based on a recommendation form a colleague, who claimed that because the author was agnostic towards religion, his book was unbiased and a balanced view on the subjects of Evolution and ID. Unfortunately, one quickly realises, after the first 5 pages that despite his so-called credentials he is the last person on earth that should be writing anything about both these subjects. Nevertheless, I persevered and read the entire book.

Like someone has said about so many Youtube videos, it is very difficult to unread something. Never again will I read anything written about fanatics of any sort.

Wishing you luck with dealing with Ponderer. The mods are not going to do anything it seems. So there is only one way out, Ignore this particular annoying delusional idiot, and immediately abandon any thread he sticks his nose into.
You could just ignore him and discuss something of interest to the rest of us.
 

Ponderer

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This is my last post on this thread. Ponderer has ruined any possibility of holding a rational debate on anything to do with evolution on my BB.

I decided to read the Book by Berlinski, based on a recommendation from a colleague, who claimed that because the author was agnostic towards religion, his book was unbiased and a balanced view on the subjects of Evolution and ID. Unfortunately, one quickly realises, after the first 5 pages that despite his so-called credentials he is the last person on earth that should be writing anything about both these subjects. Nevertheless, I persevered and read the entire book.

Like someone has said about so many Youtube videos, it is very difficult to unread something. Never again will I read anything written about fanatics of any sort.

Wishing you luck with dealing with Ponderer. The mods are not going to do anything it seems. So there is only one way out, Ignore this particular annoying delusional idiot, and immediately abandon any thread he sticks his nose into.
You refer to Berlinski as a fanatic?
Seriously?

As to referring to me as an annoying delusional idiot, your disappointment with the moderators, and your subsequent "retirement" from the discussion.
Wow.
The sacrifice, the pain, the injustice.
Shame - poor you.
 

alloytoo

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At this point I wouldn't know where to continue...its been derailed so hard.

But i'll agree, shall we just /ignore and pick a point to continue with
How about an interesting book, Richard Dawkins Greatest show on earth. I particularly like his explanation of artificial selection.

Peahens like peacocks with big tails, but big tails make them more vulnerable to predation.

So you get laid but......
 

alloytoo

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How about an interesting book, Richard Dawkins Greatest show on earth. I particularly like his explanation of artificial selection.

Peahens like peacocks with big tails, but big tails make them more vulnerable to predation.

So you get laid but......
Which reminds me, Durban museum used to have an narrated exhibit, pop in a Rand and parts of the exhibit would light up as the story progressed from the big bang to the arrival of homo sapiens. About halfway through in a section dealing with early life the volume increased dramatically as the narrator pronounced "SEXUAL REPRODUCTION".

Always raised a chuckle.
 

LD50

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Could someone tell me if horizontal gene transfer have been discussed on this forum before? Brings a whole new dynamic to an almost incomplete Darwinian theory. Where variations, with natural selection acting on those variations, happens laterally across individuals within a species or from species to species, with no reliance on time.
 

Ponderer

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Could someone tell me if horizontal gene transfer have been discussed on this forum before? Brings a whole new dynamic to an almost incomplete Darwinian theory. Where variations, with natural selection acting on those variations, happens laterally across individuals within a species or from species to species, with no reliance on time.
No - HGT (Horizontal Gene Transfer) has not yet been discussed in this thread.
Frame shift mutations was however briefly discussed.

As far as I am aware, the study of HGT in humans is still in its infancy.
Preliminary studies suggest that HGT is associated with (causes) cancer in humans.
 

DMNknight

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Could someone tell me if horizontal gene transfer have been discussed on this forum before? Brings a whole new dynamic to an almost incomplete Darwinian theory. Where variations, with natural selection acting on those variations, happens laterally across individuals within a species or from species to species, with no reliance on time.
First I've heard of it, please elaborate (I will obviously do some research).

You may or may not have noticed, we're now excluding Ponderer from this discussion as he has already derailed this thread enough and is completely unable to add positive contribution to the thread. (or even answer a direct question)
If I see orphaned answers, I assume you're talking to him, but you have been cautioned :)

I'll touch base once I've read some.
 

ToxicBunny

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First I've heard of it, please elaborate (I will obviously do some research).

You may or may not have noticed, we're now excluding Ponderer from this discussion as he has already derailed this thread enough and is completely unable to add positive contribution to the thread. (or even answer a direct question)
If I see orphaned answers, I assume you're talking to him, but you have been cautioned :)

I'll touch base once I've read some.
Like wise actually.... something new to learn....
 

DMNknight

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Like wise actually.... something new to learn....
From what I've I've managed to read so far, it's quite fascinating. I would imagine that it puts a bit of a twist in the tree model used so far and will require something a bit more complex.
I have not yet gotten to the how's of it... but it makes sense as an evolutionary mechanism to be "more fit".

e.g. being able to spread genetic disease immunity without the need for breeding? if I understand it correctly.

I'll know more once I get into the how's of it I guess.
 

LD50

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From what I've I've managed to read so far, it's quite fascinating. I would imagine that it puts a bit of a twist in the tree model used so far and will require something a bit more complex.
There is a book out called "The Tangled Tree: A Radical New History of Life" by one David Quammen (a writer for National Geografic) published in Aug last year.
Comes highly recommended and covers the whole aspect of HGT or known otherwize as Lateral GT
 

alloytoo

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First I've heard of it, please elaborate (I will obviously do some research).

You may or may not have noticed, we're now excluding Ponderer from this discussion as he has already derailed this thread enough and is completely unable to add positive contribution to the thread. (or even answer a direct question)
If I see orphaned answers, I assume you're talking to him, but you have been cautioned :)

I'll touch base once I've read some.
If memory serves (and I'm going back 5 years when I investigated this) HGT is believed to have been an important mechanism for very early life prior to sexual reproduction, allow genes to be transferred within and between species.

It in effect adds a latticed root system to the tree of life.

Not sure, but I think it may be the mechanism whereby retro-virus can insert themselves into the genome of more complicated lifeforms becoming and inherited characteristic.

Endogenous retroviruses (ERV's) embedded in the genome can then become part of larger biological process or even create an immunity to future retroviruses and other classes of diseases.

A very interesting aspect of ERVs is that they provide confirmation of common descent and offer clarification as to the order of descent.

That is to say if we examine the genome of what we believe to be closely related species they should share a large number of ERV's in their genome which both have inherited from a common ancestor.

Compare Humans and Chimps for example and we see this correlation, compare again with Gorillas and the common ERV's are fewer indicating a more distant relationship.

We can then draw a genome based "Tree of life" to compare with the traditional one. For the most part they agree (another strong piece of evidence for TOE) but occasionally something needs reclassification and a rethink.
 

Bobbin

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I was also wondering how CRISPR relates with Horizontal Gene Transfer if at all. Did a quick google and now my head hurts. :p Would love to spend some time reading up on this stuff.
 
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