Nersa wants to charge solar panel users up to 1,000% more for power than big mines

[AlphaJohn]

Rest of the world subsidise solar exactly for this reason. Instead of buying just enough people can go for overspec so that they don't need to be grid tied. That way reduce carbon based power generation and avoid carbon TAX

So In SA we go F it, prevent people from adopting solar by taxing it and then also tax more cause someone has to pay the carbon TAX

Brilliant... simply an awesome way to make a poor country even poorer.

Bravo

 

[chrisc]

A customer about 20km from Montagu has been self-sufficient since 2010 and has never been connected to the grid. Nonetheless, there have been 5 visits from bureaucrats from Eskom Worcester visiting him and telling him what he has done is illegal

At the last visit in October, they proposed a transformer 2km from the R62, an overhead feed with 102 wooden poles. Total cost would be R4.6m and he should put down a deposit of R1.8m

I doubt he has R180k, let alone R1.8m and who knows when the project would start. Of the R3,6m was surveyors fees to calculate the servitudes for poles on private farmland

His house is wired for a 12 volt system anyway. The Eskom guys did not understand the difference

 

[TheChamp]

A customer about 20km from Montagu has been self-sufficient since 2010 and has never been connected to the grid. Nonetheless, there have been 5 visits from bureaucrats from Eskom Worcester visiting him and telling him what he has done is illegal

At the last visit in October, they proposed a transformer 2km from the R62, an overhead feed with 102 wooden poles. Total cost would be R4.6m and he should put down a deposit of R1.8m

I doubt he has R180k, let alone R1.8m and who knows when the project would start. Of the R3,6m was surveyors fees to calculate the servitudes for poles on private farmland

His house is wired for a 12 volt system anyway. The Eskom guys did not understand the difference

What does he run on 12V?
And what is the illegal part according to Eskom?

 

[SirFooK'nG]

So if I understand the reasoning, they want to charge extra because those who use solar for day only, put an excess strain at night when they run Eskom power??? Really ... Solar or no Solar, the demand would still be the same. You can't blame citizens for your inept/ corrupt / failing system.

 

[chrisc]

What does he run on 12V?

Everything
He has a 220v inverter which has been used on occasion to power some mains devices.

There were 14 x 100 a/h batteries which were replaced by Lithium-ion in 2018. The fridge and freezers have 12 volt motors, he has a PSU which outputs 5V for a computer
The TV and Openview are 12 volt devices
All lighting is LED

There is a gas welding machine. An artesian well has a 3m dia fan

Unless you knew it was low-voltage, you could not tell.

 

[ToxicBunny]

A customer about 20km from Montagu has been self-sufficient since 2010 and has never been connected to the grid. Nonetheless, there have been 5 visits from bureaucrats from Eskom Worcester visiting him and telling him what he has done is illegal

At the last visit in October, they proposed a transformer 2km from the R62, an overhead feed with 102 wooden poles. Total cost would be R4.6m and he should put down a deposit of R1.8m

I doubt he has R180k, let alone R1.8m and who knows when the project would start. Of the R3,6m was surveyors fees to calculate the servitudes for poles on private farmland

His house is wired for a 12 volt system anyway. The Eskom guys did not understand the difference

So Eskom can rant and rave about it as much as they want... he has no obligation to them to get a feed....

And also the people visiting his property pushing for it, wouldn't be electricians or electrical engineers but "sales people" really.

 

[maodonovan]

So I get solar to deal with loadshedding, broken local reticulation systems and rotational shedding and that is used to justify price gouging!

Can they think of any other way to disincentive being "green"?

 

[Tinuva]

Isn't having power in SA a right? So why should he fork out that 1.8 bar.

 

[ToxicBunny]

But Eskom claims that users with solar power systems force the utility to ramp up generation at a faster rate in preparation for peak demand in the evening because they could not rely on sunlight for their full energy needs during that time.

This just shows how out of touch the idiots are with reality. Most as in probably >95% of people who put in solar systems put in some form of battery. This means that in peak period we are drawing off battery and not off grid.

I think that is they continue wanting to screw us we setup a group and actually set our systems so that we use power off grid at peak.

I only use power in the early morning between 12 and 3 .... But that can be changed

By and large Eskom aren't actually wrong really.

Many people have Solar for during the day, and minimal battery backup, so when that battery is depleted in the evening their usage spikes to "full" load onto the grid... its incredibly difficult to plan around those events, especially since they will be staggered over an evening.

 

[konfab]

I honestly thought Eskom would be happy with the few extra Kwh we feed into the grid and then resell to other users (at almost 100% profit cause they didn't have to burn coal / diesel and we carry the cost of solar system) during the day that they struggle to generate.

Technically it should be a win-win situation, but you know - punish those who prefer not to be punished with loadshedding.

The problem is that they don't need your solar power in the middle of the day. They need it in the evenings.

The correct solution is that they should start phasing in smart meters for everyone that charge people based on the demand on the grid. Everyone then will have a monetary reason to either change their habits, or get some batteries that their inverter can draw on to reduce the load on the grid.

 

[charlieharper]

The problem is that they don't need your solar power in the middle of the day. They need it in the evenings.

But theoretically, wouldn't that still free up some resources during the day that they could perhaps rather use at night?

I have no clue how this stuff works, that's why I'm asking.

 

[konfab]

Everything
He has a 220v inverter which has been used on occasion to power some mains devices.

There were 14 x 100 a/h batteries which were replaced by Lithium-ion in 2018. The fridge and freezers have 12 volt motors, he has a PSU which outputs 5V for a computer
The TV and Openview are 12 volt devices
All lighting is LED

There is a gas welding machine. An artesian well has a 3m dia fan

Unless you knew it was low-voltage, you could not tell.

I would just get very sus with the 1 inch thick power cables going everywhere.

 

[charlieharper]

The correct solution is that they should start phasing in smart meters for everyone that charge people based on the demand on the grid. Everyone then will have a monetary reason to either change their habits, or get some batteries that their inverter can draw on to reduce the load on the grid.

That's how it works in the US afaik.

Watched a video on Youtube where a guy have 2x Tesla cars and 2x Tesla powerwalls.. He charges his cars and powerwall from the grid between 12am and 5am when its cheapest then he lives off his own solar power + feed into grid the rest of the day (probably weather dependent)... On average he only pays $30 per month for electricity and that includes keeping his cars charged.

 

[Mzezman]

With the 1 battery i can go from 5pm to 9pm after charging it using the sun. So my effective Eskom window would be after 9pm until about 6am. If I added another battery i could make it to 4 / 5am ... and with some smart juggling make it throughout the night.

 

[shinji]

Apologies if this has been covered (didn't read through the whole thread)...

Wouldn't this exercise be moot for prepaid customers?
I plan on getting a solar setup for my new place but to have Eskom on prepaid as a back up / redundancy.
Since you buy access to units to be used, going prepaid would bypass this right?

 

[Tinuva]

The problem is that they don't need your solar power in the middle of the day. They need it in the evenings.

The correct solution is that they should start phasing in smart meters for everyone that charge people based on the demand on the grid. Everyone then will have a monetary reason to either change their habits, or get some batteries that their inverter can draw on to reduce the load on the grid.

How about they be smart on where they install smart meters. Start with solar users, and then use the above to make it cheap during the day and expensive at night.

Then take it one step further and also add in dynamic rates for feeding in to the grid.
Then if you smart, you can use your batteries to feed in to the grid at night. That will solve even more problems.

 

[SirFooK'nG]

By and large Eskom aren't actually wrong really.

Many people have Solar for during the day, and minimal battery backup, so when that battery is depleted in the evening their usage spikes to "full" load onto the grid... its incredibly difficult to plan around those events, especially since they will be staggered over an evening.

This is purely their own fault. They should be able to deliver that service in the first place.

 

[AchmatK]

Octopus Energy in UK has a good model.

They have dynamic pricing for both buy and sell depending on the demand.

They advertise these rates live or through an API. The sunsynk data logger in the UK I think can track these rates and you can set your system to sell to them when their buy rates are high and buy it back when their sell rates are low.

Even without solar you can use this and buy low, store it in batteries and sell back during peak demand from what is stored in your batteries.

You can therefore sell to them from your batteries during peak demand and buy it back and charge your batteries at low demand times like the middle of the night.

https://www.energylivenews.com/2019/04/01/octopus-energys-new-tariff-offers-cash-for-solar-power-export/

 

[Tinuva]

Apologies if this has been covered (didn't read through the whole thread)...

Wouldn't this exercise be moot for prepaid customers?
I plan on getting a solar setup for my new place but to have Eskom on prepaid as a back up / redundancy.
Since you buy access to units to be used, going prepaid would bypass this right?

When you do buy units, they add in the daily fee. So when the time come to use that backup, they will hit you hard on the daily access fee.

 

[ToxicBunny]

This is purely their own fault. They should be able to deliver that service in the first place.

100% agreed with you...

I'm just commenting on the fact that many people haven't provisioned systems to be fully off-grid, they actually still rely on the grid for a fair chunk of their usage, and the grid is a "backup" when their system is depleted or for the heavy draw items like geysers/ovens/stoves etc.