New water restriction tariffs hit Cape Town: what you need to know

[Geoff.D]

Here's a radical idea - build more fkn dams.

Very few sites remain where dams can be built, and as far as I know, there are no more suitable sites close to CT. Anyone know of anymore sites that could be exploited for dams in the WC?

 

[genelock]

Very few sites remain where dams can be built, and as far as I know, there are no more suitable sites close to CT. Anyone know of anymore sites that could be exploited for dams in the WC?

How about underground

 

[MidnightWizard]

"Science"

The principals laid out in the article by Anthony Turton is genuine hype free Science. But then it does not fit in with the current political nonsense going on so obviously it has to be wrong.

Who is
Anthony Turton ?
Is he a HydroGeologist
A Hydrologist
A Geologist
A ground water specialist ?

Hoping to get ANY academics / scientists to agree on ANYTHING is more difficult than getting rid of Zuma and cadres

I told them a long time ago that they need to hollow out Table Mountain ( turn it into a vast water storage system ) the technology skills and know-how to do this already exists in SA -- ergo all the long railway and water tunnels and pumped storage systems ( ESKOM ) not to mention deep level gold mines.
Install fog and moisture capture systems on the top of the mountain and flow these INSIDE to your storage reservoir
Pump your recovered and treated waste water up into the mountain during off-peak times
WHEN there is a sufficient level of redundancy allow the water to flow down to lower level reservoirs turning hydroelectric turbines on the way
VOILA
WATER AND POWER

SIMPLISTICO .... ( Gold medal of hero of the Republic [of the Cape] )

 

[Geoff.D]

How about underground

That is exactly what MAR is about. Treat waste water or other water for that matter, and instead of storing it in above ground dams, deliberately pump the water underground.

Not an expert in this. Hopefully someone with geology knowledge can tell us if there are sites that could be used other than existing aquifers.

 

[greg_SA]

Have you read the article referred to in a previous post?

The only natural source of water flow into an aquifer is rainfall that filters down into the ground. If the amount withdrawn from the aquifer exceeds the amount filtering through from rainfall the aquifer recedes. Really easy to understand. As Climate change reduces the amount of rainfall in an area, the water table in that are will fall IF water is being extracted from it.

The only know alternative is Managed Aquifer Recharge (MAR) where plants are setup to purify waste water and then to pump it back into the ground.

Yes sure, the idea is to build dams to catch excessive run-off and store it in dams, BUT this is supposed to be a controlled process where ALL flow into a river is not supposed to be cut off completely.

Okay, so they are filled by rainfall. And they are just like a big dams. We just have to make sure that we don't on average use more water per annum than the rainfall can replenish. And this is the case with normal dams too.

So the way I see it, they are like underground dams that have been built for free.

 

[The_Assimilator]

Have you read the article referred to in a previous post?

The only natural source of water flow into an aquifer is rainfall that filters down into the ground. If the amount withdrawn from the aquifer exceeds the amount filtering through from rainfall the aquifer recedes. Really easy to understand. As Climate change reduces the amount of rainfall in an area, the water table in that are will fall IF water is being extracted from it.

The only know alternative is Managed Aquifer Recharge (MAR) where plants are setup to purify waste water and then to pump it back into the ground.

Yes sure, the idea is to build dams to catch excessive run-off and store it in dams, BUT this is supposed to be a controlled process where ALL flow into a river is not supposed to be cut off completely.

Thank you.

Here's a radical idea - build more fkn dams.

Massive waste of space that could be used for other things, and massively inefficient due to evaporation losses.

How about underground

You mean, like... aquifers? You know, the ones that we already have?

Who is
Anthony Turton ?
Is he a HydroGeologist
A Hydrologist
A Geologist
A ground water specialist ?

Hoping to get ANY academics / scientists to agree on ANYTHING is more difficult than getting rid of Zuma and cadres

I told them a long time ago that they need to hollow out Table Mountain ( turn it into a vast water storage system ) the technology skills and know-how to do this already exists in SA -- ergo all the long railway and water tunnels and pumped storage systems ( ESKOM ) not to mention deep level gold mines.
Install fog and moisture capture systems on the top of the mountain and flow these INSIDE to your storage reservoir
Pump your recovered and treated waste water up into the mountain during off-peak times
WHEN there is a sufficient level of redundancy allow the water to flow down to lower level reservoirs turning hydroelectric turbines on the way
VOILA
WATER AND POWER

SIMPLISTICO .... ( Gold medal of hero of the Republic [of the Cape] )

Congratulations, you've proven that any problem can be trivially solved given an infinite supply of money. I'm sure the Nobel prize committee will be giving you a call any day now.

 

[Geoff.D]

The MAR idea in principal is no different from pumped storage schemes for electricity generation. Use excess water when available to replenish aquifers as an alternative to above ground storage in dams.

Yes it costs money, but then so does building dams.

 

[genelock]

I mean huge underground reservoirs...but massive
If land is an issue for dams they should go underground.reservoirs could run underneath industrial and residential areas

 

[mercurial]

Just take a drive out of the city. Massive open spaces just sitting there.

 

[BTTB]

Don't the aquifers get filled by the rains and any excess ends up in the sea. If if we don't use the aquifers, and they are full, then the rains just go to the sea? So at the moment, the unused aquifers are like full dams? Just asking - maybe BTTB knows?

A Scientist like Professor Hartnady will be able to answer these questions and comments with some experience.
Its like the Medical Profession, unless there are peer reviews and papers written acknowledging each other as being correct, your point of view will not be taken seriously.

From my view, you first need to distinguish the two different aquifers:

1. The Cape Flats resides upon the Cape Flats Aquifer and is a sand aquifer and by this I mean its really dense white sand that covered the area over millions of years and separated Table Mountain from the Mountain Range at Gordons Bay. Some people refer to it as waai sand and many of the sand dunes on the Cape Flats are used for mining sand. Its essentially a sponge of water held up by the sea of Table Bay on the one side and the sea of False Bay on the other and from both sides the mountains top it up via underground veins. Princess Vlei which is a perennial open aquifer is topped up on the surface and by underground veins.
You could call the Cape Flats a sponge of dense sand and water, a marvel of nature. It has more than one layer and at around 100 feet or meters you will hit a layer of hardish material and beyond that is the secondary aquifer. The surface water's pH can be quite acidic with high concentrations of iron and sulphur, down to as low as 3.5 but more in the 5.3 to 5.8 pH range whereas the water in the secondary aquifer is anywhere between 8.2 and 9.2 and high in calcium.

2. Table Mountain Group Aquifer is made up of bodies of water laying in the fissures and cracks under the mountain ranges, an aquifer almost unique to South Africa and is 1000kms long in length, hundreds of kilometres wide, the depth of which is most likely unknown. The comment is that they are like full dams is 100% on the money. The excess water that cannot be stored in the aquifer runs off into streams and rivers and ultimately in many cases into the sea. The water cannot go any further down after millions of years is my assumption. The fact that it is full means that no further water can drain into it.

Looking at it another way, our surface dams are essentially the run-off of what cannot seep into the earth quick enough or because the fissure or cracks are saturated.
My unqualified guess is that for each litre pumped out from below will simply be refilled from above that is is within the fissures and cracks and when it rains and can it rain in the Western Cape, it will simply continue to fill from the top.

While the Ghyben-Herzberg Principle will always be valid, in my opinion it is least relevant in the Western Cape due to our unique Aquifers.

 

[MidnightWizard]

Workable

Congratulations, you've proven that any problem can be trivially solved given an infinite supply of money. I'm sure the Nobel prize committee will be giving you a call any day now.

Do YOU have any idea of the current cost of the building of a new MAJOR dam -- and -- associated and ancillary things like pipelines
Do YOU have any idea of the projected waste of money of the -- NUCLEAR -- project

Can YOU point out a location for the building of a NEW MAJOR dam for Cape Town
( You have read the reports of the capture abilities of the watershed that supplies the Cape Town area ? )

Have YOU seen inside an aquifer ?
Those pesky Cape Town ones that are apparently prone to problems with saline incursion ?

A water reservoir INSIDE Table Mountain will have NONE of these problems being completely self contained and managed

SO
Perhaps -- oh wise one -- YOU have a better more rational more workable plan ?

 

[MidnightWizard]

Sympatico

SO
Here is a further spin off ( symbiosis in sympathy )
ALL the rock that is removed from the mountain can be used to INCREASE the land area of Cape Town
Reclaimed from the sea -- In exactly the same way they did it in Hong Kong and a number of other places
Where they have FORWARD THINKERS ........

NEW REAL ESTATE = MONEY !!!!!!!!!

But I sense these ideas are too modern , too new , too WORKABLE for much of the old dead wood !

 

[yebocan]

SO
Here is a further spin off ( symbiosis in sympathy )
ALL the rock that is removed from the mountain can be used to INCREASE the land area of Cape Town
Reclaimed from the sea -- In exactly the same way they did it in Hong Kong and a number of other places
Where they have FORWARD THINKERS ........

NEW REAL ESTATE = MONEY !!!!!!!!!

But I sense these ideas are too modern , too new , too WORKABLE for much of the old dead wood !

Foreshore V.2 - current Foreshore was constructed to provide employment for troops that returned from WWII - Sand was railed in from primarily, Simonstown. You right massive potential spin offs from this crisis, if the right people have a seat at the table.

 

[Slootvreter]

Who is
Anthony Turton ?
Is he a HydroGeologist
A Hydrologist
A Geologist
A ground water specialist ?

Hoping to get ANY academics / scientists to agree on ANYTHING is more difficult than getting rid of Zuma and cadres

I told them a long time ago that they need to hollow out Table Mountain ( turn it into a vast water storage system ) the technology skills and know-how to do this already exists in SA -- ergo all the long railway and water tunnels and pumped storage systems ( ESKOM ) not to mention deep level gold mines.
Install fog and moisture capture systems on the top of the mountain and flow these INSIDE to your storage reservoir
Pump your recovered and treated waste water up into the mountain during off-peak times
WHEN there is a sufficient level of redundancy allow the water to flow down to lower level reservoirs turning hydroelectric turbines on the way
VOILA
WATER AND POWER

SIMPLISTICO .... ( Gold medal of hero of the Republic [of the Cape] )

Do YOU have any idea of the current cost of the building of a new MAJOR dam -- and -- associated and ancillary things like pipelines
Do YOU have any idea of the projected waste of money of the -- NUCLEAR -- project

Can YOU point out a location for the building of a NEW MAJOR dam for Cape Town
( You have read the reports of the capture abilities of the watershed that supplies the Cape Town area ? )

Have YOU seen inside an aquifer ?
Those pesky Cape Town ones that are apparently prone to problems with saline incursion ?

A water reservoir INSIDE Table Mountain will have NONE of these problems being completely self contained and managed

SO
Perhaps -- oh wise one -- YOU have a better more rational more workable plan ?

SO
Here is a further spin off ( symbiosis in sympathy )
ALL the rock that is removed from the mountain can be used to INCREASE the land area of Cape Town
Reclaimed from the sea -- In exactly the same way they did it in Hong Kong and a number of other places
Where they have FORWARD THINKERS ........

NEW REAL ESTATE = MONEY !!!!!!!!!

But I sense these ideas are too modern , too new , too WORKABLE for much of the old dead wood !

This fcken oke :crylaugh: Why don't we employ him to save us?

 

[MidnightWizard]

Multi-National

Foreshore V.2 - current Foreshore was constructed to provide employment for troops that returned from WWII - Sand was railed in from primarily, Simonstown. You right massive potential spin offs from this crisis, if the right people have a seat at the table.

Some see problems -- Some see challenges
Some see disaster -- Some see OPPORTUNITY

These would most likely be foreign
I really do not mind if they are JAPANESE / CHINESE / RUSSIAN
I see such a project as this as a Multi -National one
MONEY is there -- LOTS of it -- for the RIGHT projects
With the correct big multi-national investors one would not have to go knocking on governments door
Cape Town has the inherent natural factors and features to BE ANOTHER SINGAPORE !
It is just the POLITICAL WILL that is -- lost in translation !

 

[Archer]

snip

What you're trying to achieve is the equivalent of filling up Theewaterskloof with a catchment area that is about 100x smaller (and yes, I'm factoring in the fog and moisture collection). Not gonna happen

 

[spiff]

no need to build new dams - the coct should have dredged the dried up dams deeper so they hold more water for the same surface area.

 

[greg_SA]

no need to build new dams - the coct should have dredged the dried up dams deeper so they hold more water for the same surface area.

I don't think CoCT are allowed to - the dams fall under national government, AFAIK.

 

[mercurial]

#RainMustFall

 

[Agent_Smith]

So how long does water 'keep'? If I wanted to stockpile some bottles, would the water go off?