No Admission of Guilt speeding fine, how screwed am I?

[SauRoNZA]

Applies to both fixed and handheld. Also equipment must be calibrated correctly and licensed.

Fixed camera will have lane markers built into the "file number" and the summons wil, have those details.

Probably on the notification too, OP just can't see it.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Taken from "the PROSECUTING GUIDELINES FOR SPEED MEASURING EQUIPMENT [SME] AND TRAFFIC LIGHT VIOLATION MONITORING EQUIPMENT"

"If two or more vehicles are in the measurement area between the sensor lines at the same time, the measurement is to be rejected, except on the case of lane specific sensors."

Like I said, research.

In this case the other car is way past the sensor lines.

Also I can almost guarantee there are lane specific sensors.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Here's a pic of me doing 190km/h in a 60km/h zone. Still waiting for a summons.

I'm guessing you weren't actually doing 190 judging by the vehicle and the other traffic.

So maybe they know it's incorrect. Have a similar one, also waiting more than a year now.

 

[Swa]

Fixed camera will have lane markers built into the "file number" and the summons wil, have those details.

Probably on the notification too, OP just can't see it.

Applies to fixed camera as well unless it's lane specific in which case there are other requirements as well.

 

[tRoN]

Here's a pic of me doing 190km/h in a 60km/h zone. Still waiting for a summons.

You drive a minibus taxi??
Shot left...

 

[ld13]

"If two or more vehicles are in the measurement area between the sensor lines at the same time"

2 vehicles in the photo != 2 vehicles in the measurement area between the sensor lines

 

[Nuklear]

2 vehicles in the photo != 2 vehicles in the measurement area between the sensor lines

Yeah I'm not holding my breath on that being a valid defense. I was more wondering if anybody else had had any experiences like this.

Super not keen on the prospect of getting my licence suspended and getting a record for something this dumb (of me). I'm really not adverse to ponying up for lawyers if I need to in order to avoid said record, just don't like going into things like this blind I guess

 

[garyc]

If you go to court, remember you have the right to cross-examine the traffic officials. Ask them for all the relevant technical details, such as exactly how the machine resolves to your car only, who calibrated the equipment and when, when was it last serviced/checked, etc. Ask them to produce the qualifications/certifications of the calibrator and operator (actual docs, not verbal claims), a copy of the cam's service log, and so on. If they can't, the magistrate will throw it out.

^ This

I was in court once where they claimed I was doing 120 in a 40 zone. Started asking these questions and the State could not present a witness. The case was thrown out.

 

[mjwitter]

Yeah I'm not holding my breath on that being a valid defense. I was more wondering if anybody else had had any experiences like this.

Super not keen on the prospect of getting my licence suspended and getting a record for something this dumb (of me). I'm really not adverse to ponying up for lawyers if I need to in order to avoid said record, just don't like going into things like this blind I guess

That looks like the intersection going into Sea Point? I went through there, doing mid 50km/h recently, someone was going marginally faster in the right lane, going past me and one if us got flashed. I can't imagine they were over the limit by much, if at all.

 

[DramBuddy]

You drive a minibus taxi??
Shot left...

I was in the Prado. Another Prado was clocked at 167 at the same intersection. Apparently there was a faulty sensor at that intersection. The OP was also going through a traffic light, he should investigate the option of a faulty sensor if he's sure he wasnt doing the alleged speed.

 

[tRoN]

I was in the Prado. Another Prado was clocked at 167 at the same intersection. Apparently there was a faulty sensor at that intersection. The OP was also going through a traffic light, he should investigate the option of a faulty sensor if he's sure he wasnt doing the alleged speed.

Hmm. Those prados go fast bru...gotta get me one

 

[DramBuddy]

Hmm. Those prados go fast bru...gotta get me one

When I was preparing a possible defense for court I approached Toyota to get clarity on the top speed. According to them the car is capable of 190, I wouldn't wanna find out myself though.

 

[Nuklear]

That looks like the intersection going into Sea Point? I went through there, doing mid 50km/h recently, someone was going marginally faster in the right lane, going past me and one if us got flashed. I can't imagine they were over the limit by much, if at all.

It is indeed. I drive past there on the reg, and I really can't see why I would ever be going that fast. My car is old af and rattles like a spaceship at anything over 80, especially with the roof down. It really has me a bit baffled.

 

[Nuklear]

Is the speed on that sign obscured in the original or did you do that?

It's a static camera so it will have lane markers in.

If that speed limit sign wasn't showing you could argue that you didn't know what the speed limit was and drove appropriately as per conditions.

You shouldn't have a problem either way, but might be looking at a big fine.

Wait for a proper summons regardless.

Thanks for weighing in. Moving at the end of the month, so going to have to go re-register my address at the traffic department and hope any potential summons doesn't get lost in the mail.

I don't think that sign in the picture is a speed limit sign, some local neighbourhood watch or something I think :/

When you say that there shouldn't be a problem, do you reckon the whole could be downgraded to big-ass-speeding fine status?

 

[Nerfherder]

Here's a pic of me doing 190km/h in a 60km/h zone. Still waiting for a summons.

My wife got two fines exactly a minute apart of her jumping a red at an intersection. The picture was obviously exactly the same for both times.

We also decided to wait it out and nothing has come of it.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Thanks for weighing in. Moving at the end of the month, so going to have to go reregister my address and hope any potential summons doesn't get lost in the mail.

I don't think that sign in the picture is a speed limit sign, some local neighbourhood watch or something I think :/

I only asked because I received a stream of fines at one point for a static camera that I travelled past every day.

In the actual photos you see the speed sign which is 80 but the fines claimed it was a 60 zones.

These were all in a period of two weeks for a camera I passed every day for 5+ years without issue.

I never received any summons after the notifications and can only imagine that they know the fines were wrong and therefore never followed up.

 

[Nuklear]

For the sake of posterity, I feel compelled to give a bit of feedback regarding how this whole palava panned out.

I ended up enlisting the services of an attorney to the tune of around R8000. I feel like I might have overpaid, but the guy was pretty sharp.

According to this well dressed fellow, it's not possible to get a criminal record for an appearance such as this. This would be because the summons was issued from traffic court(?), and no finger prints have been taken (you can't have a criminal record if your prints arent in the system).

In my situation, since the actual summons was eventually delivered to a flat that I had moved out of a few months prior (after notifying the traffic authorities of said movement), I was theorising that the whole thing could be thrown out due to the summons not being properly served.

This would have apparently been what they colloquially call a "bad move", as it would just result in me being arrested either way. The arrest could then be contested in court, but it would just be more headaches.

The whole process involved me rocking up the Cape Town magistrates court in the morning, listening to all of the thrilling tales of the other perpetrators and then taking the stand. I was advised to plead guilty, after which the court wanted to hear reasons why my licence should not be suspended. At this point I mentioned all of the negative impacts not having my own transport would have personally and professionally, before the judge finally sentenced.

Ended up with a R3000 fine on top of the legal fees, no criminal record, and the whole day ahead of me.

This was an expensive mistake and would strongly advise against it. 2/10.

 

[Zuner]

Extensive but glad it worked out in the end, up still have a N.A.G fine from 1.5 years ago. No summons.

In the interest of money saving, would you say that one needs a lawyer in such a case, would you be able to go through it again and just plead guilty and site remorse etc without a lawyer?

Just asking so everyone else knows.

 

[Swa]

Sounds like a better option to just show up without an attorney and then have them appoint one. This oke did nothing more and ended up with R8000. I also want to be in such a profession.