'No pay, no leave' - govt warns civil servants who want to take part in Wednesday's stayaway

TheChamp

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How could one practically hold 70% of a large corporate, white-collar, workforce accountable, should they choose to halt productivity for a day?
You think even 5% of the type would be prepared to risk their employment just like that? I mean most cannot even take a stand for what is right and are just happy to take instructions as they come from top management even when it doesn't make sense.

If you want to do the things union members do it's best to belong to a union, otherwise you are going to be eaten alive by management.
 

Kosmik

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An unprotected strike is a strike whereby any action is deemed illegal and not allowed by the CCMA/Labour Court after a dispute is declared and not resolved.
You can belong to a union and take part in an unprotected strike and still get fired.
For a union member yes but anyone who is not a member, its a not a protecte strike AFAIK.
 
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LCBXX

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You think even 5% of the type would be prepared to risk their employment just like that? I mean most cannot even take a stand for what is right and are just happy to take instructions as they come from top management even when it doesn't make sense.

If you want to do the things union members do it's best to belong to a union, otherwise you are going to be eaten alive by management.
5%? Never. The assumption is that it would remain a minority, which is easily managed through corporate policy.

I'm asking what the plans are when the 5% becomes 25%, 45%, etc.
 

OhYeah84

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For a union memer yes but anyone who is not a member, its a not a protecte strike AFAIK.
Anyone can take part in an unprotected strike. Union member or not. Just because they're a union member it doesn't allow them to take part in a strike unless it has been sanctioned.
 

Mista_Mobsta

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What gets my goat the most is the bloody opportunity cost of these "strikes" - what does it achieve in reality? You get the attention of the media, Union members spend the day protesting (hopefully peacefully) and the police have to mobilise a presence just in case things get out of hand. Sure, our police force are pretty much useless but it still pulls valuable resources from actually making a difference to babysitting a bunch of dancing tantrum babies!
 

LCBXX

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Anyone can take part in an unprotected strike. Union member or not. Just because they're a union member it doesn't allow them to take part in a strike unless it has been sanctioned.
It looks like others need to sharpen up on their labour laws.
 

LCBXX

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What gets my goat the most is the bloody opportunity cost of these "strikes" - what does it achieve in reality? You get the attention of the media, Union members spend the day protesting (hopefully peacefully) and the police have to mobilise a presence just in case things get out of hand. Sure, our police force are pretty much useless but it still pulls valuable resources from actually making a difference to babysitting a bunch of dancing tantrum babies!
This, and hence my question on what happens when white-collar workers also start participating.

It's going to be way more impactful when you thousands of financial, audit and consulting firm staff join a strike for a day. God help this economy of it carries on for more than a day...
 

AlphaJohn

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Fire every last one of them. In fact in the idea world, they'de be fired for joining a union in the first place but alas...

In a ideal world the workers tell the union what to stand & fight for via voting,
Not what we have in SA where the union intimidate workers to support their political views.
 

ToxicBunny

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My point is that it's small-scale thinking. When you have, in our case, a 70% stay-away it amounts to nearly 10K staff.

Like I said, we've started discussions on whether something like a strike could actually occur within the white-collar corporates in the future, when aspects such as escalating fuel & living costs are also impacting this demographic, and how would it impact business continuity.

I reckon the thinking around usual threats of disciplinary actions won't cut it as a deterrent when it comes it it, just like it doesn't cut it for the blue-collar worker.

Why is it small scale thinking?

If you have a 70% stay away for an unprotected strike relating to issues that are not employment related, then issue the letters (if that is what the policy states)... not doing so is actually grounds for any decision in the future relating to such an event, even if its 5 employees to be challenged and upheld since there wasn't uniform enforcement of the policy.
 

Mista_Mobsta

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This, and hence my question on what happens when white-collar workers also start participating.

It's going to be way more impactful when you thousands of financial, audit and consulting firm staff join a strike for a day. God help this economy of it carries on for more than a day...
From my +-14 years in the professional industry, white-collar workers in the professional fields, don't usually take part in the protected strikes unless it involves management etc as well. There are still many people who are still proud of their work and contribution - these generally don't get involved in strikes as the repercussions could hit home too close for their liking.

For business continuity purposes, there's not much you can do except to issue disciplinary action against unprotected strikers and doing unpaid leave.
 

LCBXX

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Why is it small scale thinking?

If you have a 70% stay away for an unprotected strike relating to issues that are not employment related, then issue the letters (if that is what the policy states)... not doing so is actually grounds for any decision in the future relating to such an event, even if its 5 employees to be challenged and upheld since there wasn't uniform enforcement of the policy.
Sending a letter is going to help when 70% of a company's white-collar workforce, strikes. Yes.
From my +-14 years in the professional industry, white-collar workers in the professional fields, don't usually take part in the protected strikes unless it involves management etc as well. There are still many people who are still proud of their work and contribution - these generally don't get involved in strikes as the repercussions could hit home too close for their liking.

For business continuity purposes, there's not much you can do except to issue disciplinary action against unprotected strikers and doing unpaid leave.
Same experience. I'm asking since it does seem like ZA companies are confident that this is never going to be a situation to consider.

Here's hoping that the BCM team doesn't join such a strike. Or the Cybersecurity team. Or the Network Infrastructure team. Or the Cloud geeks.
 

TheChamp

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5%? Never. The assumption is that it would remain a minority, which is easily managed through corporate policy.

I'm asking what the plans are when the 5% becomes 25%, 45%, etc.
No plans, they just assume that it will never happen, if it does happen they will concede temporary defeat and pretend that everything is fine, let all of you back in and lull you into a false sense of victory, then when the time is right they will strike down on you with great fury and vengeance, one by one. They won't fire everyone, just enough of you to send a good message.

There are so many things we get away with that are never enforced, no one cares when I am 20 minutes late from lunch, no one cares that I sometimes use the employers water to wash my car, but wait until they are out to get you, you won't survive.

What the unions are often helpful with is that they know a lot of things about a lot of people, for an example my manager usually goes to fetch the kids during the day while he's supposed to be working, he sometimes use the employers printer to print his kids school stuff, so everyone knows everyone's dealings and everyone is on the same page.

That's how everyone coexist, don't bother us and we bother you, that is the kind of the prevailing environment, knowing people and blackmailing you if necessary is all part of the game if the situation calls for it. In other environments management has the upper hand on everything because employees think they are educated so nothing will happen to them.
 

wingnut771

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I'm asking if this could be a possibility in the future, and what it could mean for business continuity if it does occur.
Only unionised workers strike so I think you're pretty safe from this hypothetical.
 

Kosmik

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Anyone can take part in an unprotected strike. Union member or not. Just because they're a union member it doesn't allow them to take part in a strike unless it has been sanctioned.
We saying the same thing.
 
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