Official Arsenal FC Supporters Thread

[phiber]

All neutrals support Arsenal over the other two.

Err, don't think you will find a Spurs fan that will agree with you Alan

 

[Cantera]

HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE injury to Ramsey!

Hope he gets well soon.

The refs need to up their game and start protecting these damn PLAYERS!!! Its their FLIPPEN job!!

Shawcross looked shocked when it happened, I am sure it was not intentional. Even with that said, I really hope he gets an extremely harsh penalty, so the FA can send a very clear message out to the players.

 

[dbecks]

HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE injury to Ramsey!

Hope he gets well soon.

The refs need to up their game and start protecting these damn PLAYERS!!! Its their FLIPPEN job!!

Shawcross looked shocked when it happened, I am sure it was not intentional. Even with that said, I really hope he gets an extremely harsh penalty, so the FA can send a very clear message out to the players.

How??? With "Ref sponsored" Ankle guards

 

[phiber]

How??? With "Ref sponsored" Ankle guards

Start handing out yellow cards to defenders who make tackles without even attempting to win the ball. Any tackle with studs showing should be a yellow, and if the ball isn't won it should be red. Start doing that and defenders will stop lunging. Also when the managers come out and say we will beat you by kicking you, the FA need to do something. You want to kick and tackle dirty go play rugby.

 

[Tarantula]

I think the answer here is the FA. They are the ones that need to introduce stricter refereeing procedures and longer bans for terrible tackles.

Shawcross is set to receive the same ban as Beletti from Chelsea (3 matches). The difference between the two incidents are chalk and cheese.

 

[dbecks]

Start handing out yellow cards to defenders who make tackles without even attempting to win the ball. Any tackle with studs showing should be a yellow, and if the ball isn't won it should be red. Start doing that and defenders will stop lunging. Also when the managers come out and say we will beat you by kicking you, the FA need to do something. You want to kick and tackle dirty go play rugby.

Arent they suppose to be doing that already??? I also think the answer is with the FA

 

[Tarantula]

Couldn't agree more. Horrible injury but not a horrible tackle. Take away the injury and it's a yellow card and nothing more. It's not like you get sent off because an injury results. Wenger's ridiculous comments once again (as was the case with Eduardo) took away almost all the sympathy I might have had.

Please tell me you are joking?! The the injury received from a tackle DOES impact the severity of a tackle and the subsequent punishment. You feel Shawcross can hold his head high and feel totally unashamed by his actions?

Ridiculous comments?! 3 broken legs in 4 years. If this had happened with Utd (guessing you are a UTD supporter as you certainly sound like one) you don't think Ferguson would speak out against it? Wenger is totally and jusitfiably allowed to make his thoughts heard on these tackles. They are a disgrace to football.

 

[Alan]

Err, don't think you will find a Spurs fan that will agree with you Alan

They would never publicly admit it but they do

 

[iDOL]

Don't worry, I hope next they target Wayne Rooney, Dimitar Berbatov and break his leg - or Fernando Torres , Steven Gerard or the new guy Aquillani.

I think it will only be fair hey ?

 

[fishfly]

Don't worry, I hope next they target Wayne Rooney, Dimitar Berbatov and break his leg - or Fernando Torres , Steven Gerard or the new guy Aquillani.

I think it will only be fair hey ?

Why not just name the entire England team whilst you at it... they all don't deserve to be at this years WC! hell why not break every single EPL players legs whilst they at it!

 

[Alan]

3 horrendous leg breaks in 4 years, im sorry but everyone does come out to kick Arsenal, no one can deny that ofcourse Shawcross didnt intend to break Ramseys leg, or Taylor on Eduardo, but the tackles were reckless..

Liverpool lost 3 players to broken legs/ankles in one year.

 

[silent_shadow]

I'd just like to clarify I definitely don't think Shawcross intended to hurt him so deliberately. But it's clear that to fly in with your foot raised like that with such force with the ball a distance away is a reckless challenge and synonymous with Stoke's plan to be physical. Not to mention Fuller even having the never to say that the best way to beat Arsenal is to kick them. And this is the result.

Also have to say that was one of the most emotional matches I've witnessed. I felt so sick and depressed after seeing the Ramsey tackle that I stopped caring about the result. Just horrible to happen to a young player like that. Plus it reminded me so much of Birmingham 2 years ago when Eddie's leg snapped, we concede a goal last minute to drop 2 points and capitulated from that day onwards to the title.
But when we scored the 2 goals and to see the emotion from the players, seeing the huddle at the end. It was pride, anger, sadness, joy, hope all combined. What a rollercoaster of a game.

 

[silent_shadow]

Incidentally here's a great article on the issue:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=4&art_id=iol1267434007358M635

It was a familiar speech. "There is no way that was a malicious challenge," said David Kemp, assistant manager of Stoke City. "Ryan isn't that sort of player. It was probably a new experience for him to get frustrated, that's why he chased down the ball and made that tackle.

"There was no malicious intent. It was a genuine attempt. We've seen far worse challenges go unpunished. It was just one of those football injuries, one of those incidents that frequently happen in the game. Before long Ryan might be on the end of one himself."

Over time, only the names change. The quickest of wit will have spotted that Kemp is now Stoke's chief scout, not assistant to Tony Pulis. His observation was not from Saturday, when Shawcross broke the leg of Aaron Ramsey, but from 2007 when he broke the leg of Francis Jeffers of Sheffield Wednesday with a tackle from behind. Maybe Arsene Wenger is correct not to believe in coincidence.
Continues Below ↓





Shawcross left the Britannia Stadium distraught at this latest calamity. So he should be. Ramsey is a precociously-talented teenage footballer, and who knows when he will play again, or what path his career will now take?

These days, football gets its mitigations in early. It was the first time Shawcross has received a red card; he has subsequently and justifiably been called into the England squad and the majority agree there was no desire to harm in his challenge.

Yet malicious intent - the motivation to actually cause serious injury - is rare in football. One thinks of Roy Keane's tackle on Alf Inge Haaland in the Manchester derby or the one by Gavin Maguire of Queens Park Rangers that ended the career of England full back Danny Thomas, and resulted in a compensation pay-out of 130,000 pounds.

Shawcross did not tackle Ramsey like that. He did however arrive late and with sufficient abandon to lose any chance of controlling the consequences. The greatest sickness in English football is that we do not recognise the wrong in that.

"Spare me about how nice Shawcross is," Arsene Wenger, the Arsenal manager, said acidly; but the testimonials to his decency were already under construction.

And, despite his previous with Jeffers, Shawcross does not seem a wicked sort; yet neither was Martin Taylor of Birmingham City, the defender who shattered Eduardo's leg almost two years ago to the day. So when Wenger dismisses the idea of coincidence in the number, and severity, of serious injuries Arsenal suffer during matches - three broken legs from foul tackles in five years - he has a point.

If his players were the victims of notorious hard men, Tommy Smith types who leave a string of wounded victims scattered in their wake throughout football, it might be coincidence.

That two players with little reputation for brutality - certainly Taylor was a boy scout compared to most central defenders - end up making potentially career-ending tackles against players from the same club demands closer inspection.

Wenger believes players are told to get at Arsenal by roughing them up, and the evidence, while circumstantial, suggests he has a point.

Shawcross did not seek to injure Ramsey but he will no doubt be aware of the theory that Arsenal don't like it up them, and may have responded accordingly. Perhaps he heard it in the dressing room before the game.

Stoke City are not a dirty team and Pulis has done an exceptional job there, but is it beyond the realms of possibility that he employed one of football's many euphemisms, prior to the game?

Something about letting them know you are there, or seeing if they fancy it? What do these phrases mean if not "go in extra hard and test their courage"? And, at that point, are the margins between hard/fair and hard/dangerous not frighteningly small?

Pulis would never say "go out and break Ramsey's leg", and any coach who talks in those terms is despised by his contemporaries, but that does not mean Stoke's management team did not place emphasis on the physical aspect of the game.

Let's face it, no manager outside the top of the Premier League is going to attempt to win by out-passing Arsenal. Kevin Keegan, ever the optimist, tried it during his brief return to Newcastle United, lost heavily twice, and was mocked for his naivety.

Even Chelsea, who have beaten Arsenal 5-0 on aggregate in two matches this season, did so while making full use of their physical advantages. With players such as Didier Drogba, Michael Ballack and John Terry, they out-muscled Arsenal and, in doing so, out-played them, too.

Wenger moaned after the game, but was dismissed. Chelsea were clearly superior and Arsenal could not compete with their athleticism, which then led to domination in technical areas.

Yet, however baseless his complaints on those occasions, Wenger has the beginnings of an argument in the way Arsenal are regarded as a soft touch, and therefore fair game for bullies.

Wenger feels that because English football believes Arsenal's largely foreign squad is excessively fancy, this creates a climate which legitimises rough tactics as a way of beating them.

Chris Morgan, captain of Sheffield United, punched Robin van Persie, the Arsenal striker, in the ribs on the blind side during a match in 2006, but after the game there was greater focus on Van Persie's refusal to offer his hand at the end. As if an off-the-ball punch was something Arsenal's softies just had to overcome, and they were bad sports if they could not.

It also gives you a general idea of how the English media treats it.

In essence, while English football employs this mindset, it is playing a version of the rules, not the real thing.

"It wasn't a bad tackle" is the standard line, isn't it? On the sofa, in the studio, in the press box, from the phone-ins. "It didn't look that bad. There wasn't much intent. He's not that kind of player. He was just too quick for him. I thought the ref had a good game, actually. He let it flow."

This last phrase - and we have all used it - translates as letting the players operate on the absolute boundaries of what is legal; a standing leg on this side of the divide, a raised foot on the other.

The reaction to the Shawcross and Taylor tackles is telling. Alan Hansen, Alan Shearer and Gary Lineker were stoic over what Shawcross had done, reviewing the footage on BBC's Match of the Day.

Similarly, at the time of the Taylor tackle on Eduardo, Steve Bruce, a respected central defender, now manager of Sunderland and his former boss at Birmingham, did not even see the challenge as a yellow card.

From season to season, the justifications are unaltered. More than three decades' experience in English football at least made Kemp smart enough to predict that the challenge on Jeffers was not the last leg-breaking tackle in which Shawcross would be involved. And he is one of the good guys, apparently.

There, in a nutshell, is the problem. - Dail Mail

 

[RanzB]

That article is dismal. They're placing emphasis around the fact that Pulis might have said "Let's go out and kick them off the pitch", then frame the intention like it was fact.

Arsene has a short memory. Arsenal used to have the worst disciplinary record in the League not too long ago.

 

[Tarantula]

That article is dismal. They're placing emphasis around the fact that Pulis might have said "Let's go out and kick them off the pitch", then frame the intention like it was fact.

Arsene has a short memory. Arsenal used to have the worst disciplinary record in the League not too long ago.

Whats your point?

Man Utd used to have a player who did a round house kick on a spectator.
Man Utd used to have a player AND captain who ended Alf-Inge Haaland's career with a spiteful and malicious tackle.

If Rooney's leg was broken next week from a wreckless tackle, I wouldn't think Ferguson has no right to voice his objection due to his side's ill-disciplined past.

 

[iDOL]

Fergie doesn't worry about his players legs getting broken - he buys them that way - ala Hargreaves.

So glad Arsene dodged that bullet - I think he has enough to worry with Rosicky to still have someone permanently on crutches.

 

[fishfly]

build them rough and tough ekse!

 

[RanzB]

Whats your point?

QUOTE]

Shouldn't have to spell it out, but here it is:

Wenger is a hypocrite. Yes, he has always been an advocate of so-called "beautiful" football, but he also had his players who were big and physical on/off the ball ie Vieira, Keown, Parlour, Silva. They were his enforcers, men who put other players on the ground when they needed to - that was one of their jobs. Now that Arsenal are lacking a player like that, they cry that every week they're getting kicked off the pitch, Wenger complains about 'anti-football', and the self pity goes on and on. I've seen Arsenal supporters here, on Arsenal blogs and forums, post that they need someone in that mold, a breaker, so to speak, and recently have been happy that Song seems to be stepping up. Now that a few chance tackles have hurt your players, Arsenal supporters are up in arms, because they feel hard done by, but here's the truth lad: when Vieira was at Arsenal, he earned 9 red cards, making him the most carded player in the EPL, but Arsenal won trophies, and none of the fans or Arsene Wenger complained then, making them hypocrites now.

 

[phiber]

Shouldn't have to spell it out, but here it is:

Wenger is a hypocrite. Yes, he has always been an advocate of so-called "beautiful" football, but he also had his players who were big and physical on/off the ball ie Vieira, Keown, Parlour, Silva. They were his enforcers, men who put other players on the ground when they needed to - that was one of their jobs. Now that Arsenal are lacking a player like that, they cry that every week they're getting kicked off the pitch, Wenger complains about 'anti-football', and the self pity goes on and on. I've seen Arsenal supporters here, on Arsenal blogs and forums, post that they need someone in that mold, a breaker, so to speak, and recently have been happy that Song seems to be stepping up. Now that a few chance tackles have hurt your players, Arsenal supporters are up in arms, because they feel hard done by, but here's the truth lad: when Vieira was at Arsenal, he earned 9 red cards, making him the most carded player in the EPL, but Arsenal won trophies, and none of the fans or Arsene Wenger complained then, making them hypocrites now.

How many legs did Vieira break? Point is if he took it too far he was sent off. Now we don't see it at all, cos it Spoils the game. Why wasn't Vidic sent off for fouling last man in the box yesterday? That is the rules, if last man denies a chance on goal it is a professional foul which means red card. And pulling shirts is definitely a professional foul. Refs need to start stepping up and following the rules and not caring what managers and fans have to say. Wenger was wrong to complain after the 2nd Porto goal, but he is right here, the refs need to step up and protect players. The fact that people say the English league is physical is a BS excuse, football has INTERNATIONAL rules governed by Fifa and held up by the FA. They wan't to have their own rules, rename the sport and play it the way you want to! Would like to hear what Platini has to say about this sort of thing.

 

[silent_shadow]

Arsenal didn't go out trying to deliberately kick people off the pitch. There'sbig difference Randhir and it's not rocket science. And of course Pulis told them to go kick us. Ricardo Fuller even said that Arsenal don't like being kicked before they played. (A comment no one in the English media blinked an eye about). We didn't break people's legs constantly did we? Again, there's a difference between having the game plan to go out and kick the opposition and being a physical team. Which you would know if you actually took time to think about it and weren't talking out of your ass simply for a reason to deride Arsenal.
No surprise you're doing it though since we all know the manager who started the trend of kicking us out of the game (which ended in Reyes' career ending btw).