Official Home Alarm Discussion Thread

kyuubi64

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Jan 11, 2019
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I assume you are talking about the blue nova's?

We spoke to one of the reps and he said this.

Yes, these batteries have an integrated BMS. Unlike the digital solution in our standard range, an MPS battery’s BMS is of analog-type. Attempting to over-charge will result in the BMS disconnecting the battery from the load, then reconnecting again after a while. This will keep on happening if charging is maintained. Having said that, based on the feedback above it seems the best way forward for us at BlueNova would be to actually test the batteries with the peripheral hardware mentioned. I will relay the message this coming Monday.
Yes was referring the Bluenovas.
 

rodga

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May 9, 2007
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You can install this Lifepo4. It has built in BMS and low voltage disconnect. https://www.communica.co.za/products/batt-13v8-li-ion-bln or you could go for a bit larger one like the 11AH version if you don't mind it not being able to fit in the panel.
Also hit enter on the keypad followed by installer code (default is 0000), then location 700 and make sure option 2 is illuminated/enabled. The default charging rate is 350mah and this will change it to 700mah so will help charge your battery faster after load shedding. Also a plus about going Lifepo4 is that it's about 99% efficient so you can generally get away with using a larger battery than the stock 7ah SLA battery which is only about 50%ish efficient.
I actually ordered and received those batteries on Friday. Seems to be working fine and the alarm doesn't lose power now.
 

rodga

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You can install this Lifepo4. It has built in BMS and low voltage disconnect. https://www.communica.co.za/products/batt-13v8-li-ion-bln or you could go for a bit larger one like the 11AH version if you don't mind it not being able to fit in the panel.
Also hit enter on the keypad followed by installer code (default is 0000), then location 700 and make sure option 2 is illuminated/enabled. The default charging rate is 350mah and this will change it to 700mah so will help charge your battery faster after load shedding. Also a plus about going Lifepo4 is that it's about 99% efficient so you can generally get away with using a larger battery than the stock 7ah SLA battery which is only about 50%ish efficient.
Also I have the tm50 touch screen panel as well the ip150 and babyware
Do you know how to change the charging rate with these?
 

kyuubi64

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Jan 11, 2019
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Also I have the tm50 touch screen panel as well the ip150 and babyware
Do you know how to change the charging rate with these?
No, sorry. Only with keypad, but I'm sure others may be able to help
 

Brieuse

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Sep 15, 2008
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801
So,

I have a paradox mg5050 with two additional zone modules.

I have the standard 7ah battery inside the alarm box , plus an additional 7ah battery in it's own enclosure, both which supply the alarm panel.

I then have an additional 7ah battery in it's own enclosure supplying 7 outside beams.

All of which appear to be charged from 1 50W Paradox/Spectrum supply.

I am running into issues with the batteries not lasting very long, could the single power supply not be enough to charge them in time?

Is there a better setup I can try?


edit: it lasts about 2.5 hours, I found a burnt wire so there may have been a lightning strike.
Ok, seems firstly it was kissed by lightning. Secondly some really dodgy wiring. Fixed all that.

Also upgraded all batteries to 12mah. Holding thumbs.
 

ebendl

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Ok, seems firstly it was kissed by lightning. Secondly some really dodgy wiring. Fixed all that.

Also upgraded all batteries to 12mah. Holding thumbs.
Just remember the batteries need much longer time to recharge (i.e. between loadshedding sessions) than what it takes to discharge them (unless you're plugging them into some sort of intelligent high-current charger, which I don't think the Paradox charger is).
 

Brieuse

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Just remember the batteries need much longer time to recharge (i.e. between loadshedding sessions) than what it takes to discharge them (unless you're plugging them into some sort of intelligent high-current charger, which I don't think the Paradox charger is).
Half my reasoning, is that the 750mah batteries once issues were solved could do at least 5 hours of supply, so with 12mah hour batteries, they won't, hopefully, deplete so much, so should last longer. As long as we stick to stage 2, I'm hopeful the charging time is enough.

edit, I used the word hope a bit too much
 

Brieuse

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Any ideas for a little 3g modem type thing to sit with the alarm to ensure connectivity?
 

mtlost

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Dec 9, 2007
Messages
108
View attachment 787787

Apparently halves the life,or worse, of your batteries though
750mA charge on a 7.2Ah battery wont hurt the battery. That's a charge current of 10% of the battery capacity, definitely in spec.

Quote from batteryuniversity.com
'Select the charge current according to battery size. For lead acid, this is between 10 and 30 percent of the rated capacity. A 10Ah battery at 30 percent charges at about 3A; the percentage can be lower. '

* Bigger battery, charge current is an issue, yes, it should last longer but lets say you start with a 100% charge battery, after loadshedding, you sit at 70%. 5 hours later you only replaced 20%, next loadshedding starts, you start with 90%, after loadshedding, you left with ±60%, already close to the limint of the recommended discharge. Now you have lets say 9-11 hours to charge the battery 40% = 8Ah, charge @ .75aH = 8.25aH. So by the time the next loadshedding starts, you start again with a battery maybe completely charged full. Once Stage 3 hits.....your buggered and you'll never get the battery back to full capacity, after a few days of stage 3, your new 18Ah battery is damaged and lost actual capacity.

* 2nd option I looked at is the Lithium replacement. Costly and I haven't read to much up about this option, but I believe the same will happen as with a bigger battery, the time to put back in what you took out during loadshedding is just not enough and the MG5050 charge current of 750mA is not for SA conditions.

I went with a similar setup that I use on my fiber router, Airties and Raspberry Pi servers. Sherlotronics 6.4Amp battery backup. 18Ah battery and a charge current of up to 3 Amp. Plenty juice and the 3A charge current will definitely be enough to put in what was taken out during loadshedding.

They have a 3.2Amp version as well that charges @ 1Amp, might be good enough for most setups. Best will be to measure the current draw from the battery and that way you'll know what to size for. I went with the 6.4A unit as it will also power a camera or two and another airtie during loadshedding.
 

alqassam

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750mA charge on a 7.2Ah battery wont hurt the battery. That's a charge current of 10% of the battery capacity, definitely in spec.

Quote from batteryuniversity.com
'Select the charge current according to battery size. For lead acid, this is between 10 and 30 percent of the rated capacity. A 10Ah battery at 30 percent charges at about 3A; the percentage can be lower. '

* Bigger battery, charge current is an issue, yes, it should last longer but lets say you start with a 100% charge battery, after loadshedding, you sit at 70%. 5 hours later you only replaced 20%, next loadshedding starts, you start with 90%, after loadshedding, you left with ±60%, already close to the limint of the recommended discharge. Now you have lets say 9-11 hours to charge the battery 40% = 8Ah, charge @ .75aH = 8.25aH. So by the time the next loadshedding starts, you start again with a battery maybe completely charged full. Once Stage 3 hits.....your buggered and you'll never get the battery back to full capacity, after a few days of stage 3, your new 18Ah battery is damaged and lost actual capacity.

* 2nd option I looked at is the Lithium replacement. Costly and I haven't read to much up about this option, but I believe the same will happen as with a bigger battery, the time to put back in what you took out during loadshedding is just not enough and the MG5050 charge current of 750mA is not for SA conditions.

I went with a similar setup that I use on my fiber router, Airties and Raspberry Pi servers. Sherlotronics 6.4Amp battery backup. 18Ah battery and a charge current of up to 3 Amp. Plenty juice and the 3A charge current will definitely be enough to put in what was taken out during loadshedding.

They have a 3.2Amp version as well that charges @ 1Amp, might be good enough for most setups. Best will be to measure the current draw from the battery and that way you'll know what to size for. I went with the 6.4A unit as it will also power a camera or two and another airtie during loadshedding.
With lithium you can go use upto 90% without decreasing the lifespan of the battery significantly
 

mtlost

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With lithium you can go use upto 90% without decreasing the lifespan of the battery significantly
True, but you still have to put back what you took out and if the time between loadshedding schedules aren't long enough you'll never get back to 100% again.
 

Thorium

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Dec 13, 2015
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I'm mulling over an alarm kit. Common sense dictates that bounded media (hardwired copper) trumps unbounded media (wireless). Yet all consumers today (and therefore vendors) seem to be in favour of wireless kit (433 / 868 Mhz). Apart from the threat actors having access to cheap hardware (SDRs can be built from cheap usb powered DVB-T tuners), the home that I want to protect in a flight path of a popular airport, and a shopping centre parking lot, and interference (or jamming) is rife. Residents sometimes have trouble opening garage doors and vehicles. So, I am not in favour of wireless "solutions", however good they may be, and however great their "anti-jamming" features may be. Perhaps I'm old school, but that's how I roll (and possibly why I have managed to live this long :ROFL:).

Extensibility and reliability is important, standard size 3 bed home, multiple entry points (and therefore zones) plus the ability to upgrade to cameras at a later stage. Home automation integration would be great (via a gateway and segregated network).
Proprietary solutions :( will not be considered at all, only mainstream, standards-based kit, with ability to accept a wide range of non-proprietary sensors.
Cabling preferably standards-based structured cabling (like CAT 5e). Secure, standards-based strong authentication (2 factor) between sensors and controller/s. Cryptographically secured transport of auth secrets as well as video footage during transport, storage integrity secured using PBKDF2 / Bcrypt and /or SHA256 or better.
And whilst I am probably capable of installing it, I'd like someone trustworthy and competent to install it for me.

I'd also like to ability to monitor it and record remotely (without incurring a ridiculous R110 pm monitoring fee for a silly cloud-based app that only uses single factor U/P authentication :eek:).

I'd also like both a primary and secondary channel for the monitoring service (something like Fibre Internet plus LTE wireless backup).

At the risk of stating the obvious, it need to work during loadshedding (and have a sustainable energy backup to work with 100% functionality during stage 8 loadshedding).

So, here are my questions:

1. What "hard wired" technologies should I be looking at? and
2. Who in Gauteng , Johannesburg are capable/competent to install it (without it catching fire and/or setting off false alarms)?;

Or am I forced to roll my own (on a small multi SBC platform)?
 

Steamy Tom

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Jan 23, 2019
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Jirre bro that post. If it were me I would install a hard wired ids alarm system if you aren't too worried about a smart integration.
 

kyuubi64

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Jan 11, 2019
Messages
53
View attachment 787787

Apparently halves the life,or worse, of your batteries though
General rule of thumb for lead acid batteries is they be charged between about 10% - 30% of their rated capacity. And to my knowledge Paradox is the only alarm panel which has such a low default charging voltage. As an example IDS alarm panels charge rate is 750mah as standard on their panels.
 

chrisc

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Aug 14, 2008
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The charger in Paradox SP6000 and EVO is an intelligent charger
Every 60 seconds, it will disconnect the charge circuit and measure the battery
If the battery is low, but above the "low battery reporting voltage" (about 11.8 VDC) it will lengthen the charge time until the battery reaches 12.4 VDC
This is the subject of a US and Canadian patent registered by Paradox

Then: Charge current, which can be 350mA or 700mA
If you wish to increase this to 700mA, the transformer must be at least 50VA
700mA will not shorten the life of a 7 a/h battery, since the spec is a charging rate up to 2.5 amps

The purpose of having a 350mA charger is that the normal spec for an alarm in North America is a 4.5 a/h battery. They have a more reliable electricity supply. The engineer at Paradox in Montreal told me that the electricity supply there has never been interrupted since AC power was introduced in 1898

A li-ion battery is an excellent substitute for gel lead-acid. It has a built in battery management system which will mimic the attributes of a lead-acid

I have fitted over 20 li-ion batteries (I got them from Blue Nova in Somerset West). Without fail, they have performed very well and are highly recommended

Mind you, the longest load-shedding period in most of the Western Cape seems to be 3 hours
 
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