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RanzB
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Official Liverpool FC Supporters Thread II
- Thread starter hawker
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Unhappy438
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akescpt
Honorary Master
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Wow you're rude , i suppose i would also be butt hurt if i supported such a kak team.
You probably do idiot.
dbecks
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Yeah they are a touchy bunch - dont even have their Leaguie record to fall back on any more...lolWow you're rude , i suppose i would also be butt hurt if i supported such a kak team.
hawker
Honorary Master
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I prefer the relegation thread
Well this isn't even a joke. Unless we start scoring goals, we could be relegated.
Got to say Rodgers has done wonders with the team (no sarcasm). Okay so the squad is pretty rubbish and the results haven't fallen the right way but its the first time I've seen Liverpool play some sort of football that resembles a sound strategy. The biggest problem with Liverpool is the mentality - that is that they still think the team is worldclass when really its midtable quality - but with proper leadership, Liverpool could compete for top four next season.
If Liverpool buy better players in January and keep Rodgers, I could really see you fighting for fifth or maybe even fourth.
If Liverpool buy better players in January and keep Rodgers, I could really see you fighting for fifth or maybe even fourth.
hawker
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+1
[video=youtube;gfpJsATlfVk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfpJsATlfVk&feature=youtu.be[/video]
OMG a owner that actually communicates with the fans.
The game is over so no more Pool trolling from me. Right back in Liverpools corner against the likes of United, City and Chelsea, as long as you continue to drop points against the minnows.
this says alot
so we will be seeing alot of the upcoming youngsters in the 1st team and buy players for what they worth. i will wait till jan and see waht targets we are looking at and what positions Rodgers looks at strengening.
RanzB
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+1 as well. Huge improvement in play. Just need to be more clinical.
RanzB
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thanks for all the condolences. looks like its going to be a weekly thing
They aren't condolences, I've said before, I think Rodgers will take the club forward. But to be honest, if management are going to stuff up like they did on Friday, he doesn't stand much of a chance to do so.
superskully
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I beleive that Gerrard is too old for the 2nd striker position and should sit bac, he did brilliantly well for England in that position.
Shelvey is looking good as an attacking option.
Borini is also a striker, not winger.
I think that Rodgers also needs to change formation when need be, play Suarez and Borini and use Gerrard and Sterling as wide men, Gerrard has a greatright boot.
Shelvey is looking good as an attacking option.
Borini is also a striker, not winger.
I think that Rodgers also needs to change formation when need be, play Suarez and Borini and use Gerrard and Sterling as wide men, Gerrard has a greatright boot.
London - “We came into this not knowing an awful lot about football. We knew how little we knew, but I don’t think we realised how large the gulf was between the sports we are used to and the way they are organised in the United States. This is a completely different animal.” - John W Henry, July 24, 2012.
The question Liverpool supporters are asking, in light of the latest, turbulent episode to engulf this ailing old club is how much knowledge John W Henry and his cohorts at Fenway Sports Group (FSG), the club’s American owners, really have of the English game.
While it may be admirable that FSG have an ideology and a philosophy to which they want to adhere, they should be fully aware now that, to be successful in football, flexibility is required, particularly in the transfer market.
In using Liverpool’s official website to publish an open letter to supporters on Monday, Henry robustly spelt out it will be FSG’s way or no way at all and the crux of his argument showed the reasons why new manager Brendan Rodgers was not allowed to sign Clint Dempsey from Fulham for £6million.
“Spending is not merely about buying talent,” said Henry, Liverpool’s principal owner. “Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years.”
Those words back up his declaration that he came into football not knowing an awful lot. No club should have a transfer policy that is unyielding, blinkered and set in stone. It is quite often the left-field signings that have the biggest impact.
Liverpool signed 35-year-old Gary McAllister in 2000. Within 12 months, Gerard Houllier’s side had collected five trophies, with the veteran Scottish midfielder playing a vital role.
Teddy Sheringham was signed by Manchester United in 1997, aged 31, to replace Eric Cantona. Two years later Sir Alex Ferguson won the treble.
In 2007 Ferguson asked the 35-year-old Henrik Larsson to join on loan as United won their 17th title.
When at Leeds, Gordon Strachan was crowned Footballer of the Year in 1991, aged 34, and led them to the title in 1992, while Patrick Vieira, also at 34, brought calm to Manchester City when arriving from Inter Milan to help them win the FA Cup in 2011.
This is not comparing Dempsey to those players, but the argument stands. Rodgers wanted him all summer. FSG knew that, but they refused to pay £6m for someone who scored 17 goals in the top flight last year.
They did, however, pay £1m for the untried 17-year-old Samed Yesil from Bayer Leverkusen. Many are wondering whether that fee would have been better utilised funding the bid for Dempsey.
Goals are what Liverpool desperately need. The wage bill may have needed a trim, but the departures of Charlie Adam, Dirk Kuyt, Andy Carroll, Maxi Rodriguez and Craig Bellamy have left Rodgers’ side bereft of potency.
That quintet contributed 32 goals last season and they have not been replaced, despite Henry claiming that the summer window could not be deemed a failure.
The atmosphere on Merseyside is now strained. Henry’s promise that FSG are committed both long term and to delivering a winning team will ring hollow in many quarters.
There are growing numbers on The Kop who view the scene with suspicion and it is hard not to feel that the man who succeeded Kenny Dalglish has been undermined.
“We needed reinforcements,” said Rodgers after Sunday’s 2-0 defeat against Arsenal. “But the window is shut and we have to concentrate on the players here. They have given me everything every day.”
But how much can they continue to give? Liverpool do not have the numbers to compete on three fronts between now and Christmas and it is likely that the Europa League campaign will assume least significance.
Trips to Switzerland later this month, and Russia in November are followed by domestic assignments against Manchester United and Chelsea respectively, and Rodgers is unlikely to sacrifice the likes of Luis Suarez and Steven Gerrard in Europe.
A glance at the players available shows an alarming lack of depth. Right now, Liverpool’s immediate ambitions are nothing grander than just getting by.
Daily Mail
The question Liverpool supporters are asking, in light of the latest, turbulent episode to engulf this ailing old club is how much knowledge John W Henry and his cohorts at Fenway Sports Group (FSG), the club’s American owners, really have of the English game.
While it may be admirable that FSG have an ideology and a philosophy to which they want to adhere, they should be fully aware now that, to be successful in football, flexibility is required, particularly in the transfer market.
In using Liverpool’s official website to publish an open letter to supporters on Monday, Henry robustly spelt out it will be FSG’s way or no way at all and the crux of his argument showed the reasons why new manager Brendan Rodgers was not allowed to sign Clint Dempsey from Fulham for £6million.
“Spending is not merely about buying talent,” said Henry, Liverpool’s principal owner. “Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years.”
Those words back up his declaration that he came into football not knowing an awful lot. No club should have a transfer policy that is unyielding, blinkered and set in stone. It is quite often the left-field signings that have the biggest impact.
Liverpool signed 35-year-old Gary McAllister in 2000. Within 12 months, Gerard Houllier’s side had collected five trophies, with the veteran Scottish midfielder playing a vital role.
Teddy Sheringham was signed by Manchester United in 1997, aged 31, to replace Eric Cantona. Two years later Sir Alex Ferguson won the treble.
In 2007 Ferguson asked the 35-year-old Henrik Larsson to join on loan as United won their 17th title.
When at Leeds, Gordon Strachan was crowned Footballer of the Year in 1991, aged 34, and led them to the title in 1992, while Patrick Vieira, also at 34, brought calm to Manchester City when arriving from Inter Milan to help them win the FA Cup in 2011.
This is not comparing Dempsey to those players, but the argument stands. Rodgers wanted him all summer. FSG knew that, but they refused to pay £6m for someone who scored 17 goals in the top flight last year.
They did, however, pay £1m for the untried 17-year-old Samed Yesil from Bayer Leverkusen. Many are wondering whether that fee would have been better utilised funding the bid for Dempsey.
Goals are what Liverpool desperately need. The wage bill may have needed a trim, but the departures of Charlie Adam, Dirk Kuyt, Andy Carroll, Maxi Rodriguez and Craig Bellamy have left Rodgers’ side bereft of potency.
That quintet contributed 32 goals last season and they have not been replaced, despite Henry claiming that the summer window could not be deemed a failure.
The atmosphere on Merseyside is now strained. Henry’s promise that FSG are committed both long term and to delivering a winning team will ring hollow in many quarters.
There are growing numbers on The Kop who view the scene with suspicion and it is hard not to feel that the man who succeeded Kenny Dalglish has been undermined.
“We needed reinforcements,” said Rodgers after Sunday’s 2-0 defeat against Arsenal. “But the window is shut and we have to concentrate on the players here. They have given me everything every day.”
But how much can they continue to give? Liverpool do not have the numbers to compete on three fronts between now and Christmas and it is likely that the Europa League campaign will assume least significance.
Trips to Switzerland later this month, and Russia in November are followed by domestic assignments against Manchester United and Chelsea respectively, and Rodgers is unlikely to sacrifice the likes of Luis Suarez and Steven Gerrard in Europe.
A glance at the players available shows an alarming lack of depth. Right now, Liverpool’s immediate ambitions are nothing grander than just getting by.
Daily Mail
RedWill
Expert Member
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- Mar 12, 2012
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As the final whistle blew at Anfield on Sunday, Steven Gerrard wore the look of a forlorn and dejected man. His beloved Liverpool had just lost to Arsenal at home, which coupled with the transfer-deadline day debacle, meant Liverpool's start to the season surely had not gone as per plan.
Gerrard, himself, had turned in a very poor performance, though it was a bit harsh that he got so much blame for the first goal when he gave the ball away 80 yards up the pitch.
Brendan Rodgers seems to believe in making Liverpool play the much fancied "tiki taka" way, and Steven Gerrard will no doubt form an important part of his plans. After all, he has been the solution to most problems for Liverpool in recent times.
But right now, is he?
Gerrard is a fine footballer. His technique, unquestionable. But at times on Sunday, he was too direct in the early phases of a move. He always had a tendency to look up and hit a hopeful long pass—also called the "Hollywood ball."
When it came off, it switched his team's focus from defense to attack very quickly. But when it didn't come off, which was the case mostly, it just seemed reckless, especially when there were better placed teammates available for an easier pass.
Now, had this been attempted by any lesser player, he would've been in line for a severe dressing down from the manager, and failure to comply with would've cost him his place in the team.
But this isn't any lesser player. This is Steven Gerrard, and therein lies the problem.
Brendan Rodger’s biggest task lies in trying to drill discipline into him and get him to truly adopt the short-passing approach because if it doesn't work out, you feel Liverpool would rather jettison their boss before their captain.
Gerrard is probably the most talented English midfielder of his generation, possessing practically everything needed to be a success, yet he has achieved so little of it.
Now, he obviously has tried hard to raise himself up to what is a king-like position at Anfield, and he has done that. Once there, it gave him more and more scope to try things, particularly with long-range shooting, which has provided much of his most sensational contributions.
For years and years, it has worked for him and the club, and the man has provided countless moments of real quality. But then off late, the very same aura has affected the team as a whole.
As Jonathan Wilson stated in his article for The Guardian:
He is "Mr. Liverpool," "Captain Fantastic" and in the eyes of Liverpool fans, he can do no wrong. His position in the team is assured, no what matter what his performance.
In his prime and pomp, he was certainly more of a benefit than a detriment. He gave real drive and goal threat for his side. At times, you could almost sense his desire to win pulling the team on. Some of his greatest performances have been delivered at key moments for Liverpool.
However, as it is with age, the injuries started to catch up with him. This coincided with Liverpool's fall from Champions League contenders and on his return, a less fit, a less agile Gerrard took it on himself to bring his beloved club back to its glory days.
His belief that he had to drive the game forward, that he had to do it alone, that he should have the ball passed to him, that he should shoot from anywhere and everywhere, has now started to let him and his teammates down more often.
It was very apparent at the start of last season where too often it looked like he didn't trust his own teammates and was always trying to make things happen himself.
While Gerrard by himself is a great asset to the team, bringing in not only his experience and authority, but also individual skill, it still takes a smart AND strong manager to outweigh the said authority and make him play in the system and for the team.
There is a grain of truth in the suggestion that he, despite being able to win games on his own at times, plays a disruptive role by not trusting them enough and trying to do everything on his own all over the pitch.
He wants to be everywhere, and he sometimes gets into an area he doesn't need to be in and the zone becomes over-occupied, leading to gaps elsewhere.
And that leads us to one of the biggest problems and questions with Steven Gerrard—What is his best position ?
The problem is not necessarily with Steven Gerrard himself, but how coaches use him and how fans perceive him. A lot of people (and some of his coaches) seem to think Gerrard is either a box-to-box midfielder like Lampard or a defensive midfielder in the style of Roy Keane.
No. Actually, he's not.
Gerrard is at his best as a marauding attacking midfielder. The player I would compare him to—bear with me—is Kaka. It might not be the natural comparison and aesthetically they look quite different as players, but Gerrard likes to operate in the same areas.
He doesn't glide past opponent like Kaka, he powers past them, but his attacking instincts are the same. He plays best and is most comfortable operating on a flank or further forward, just behind a striker in a central role. He needs to have freedom to attack, to run at opponents, he needs to be allowed to shoot and put in crosses.
Gerrard has never been a proper central midfielder. He lacks the required positional discipline and although his pace and conditioning helped him bomb between penalty boxes when he was younger and put in eye-catching last-ditch tackles, injuries and age have eroded his ability to react quickly which is required to shield his defense.
Gerrard was the closest that England had to the free-roving playmaker employed by a number of teams. This player has no defensive responsibilities and is tasked with playing most of his football in the opponent's third of the pitch. Gerrard has/had the guile and the know-how to unlock defenses. You just don't want to rely on him to protect yours.
Rafael Benitez had the right idea with Gerrard. He should either play out on the right or behind the main striker but never as a central midfielder with responsibilities as he can't be trusted. Gerrard was at his best in Benitez's system with two-deep lying midfielders behind him and Kuyt on the right. All these players could work to cover Gerrard's lack of positional discipline.
He was used in a system that made the most of his abilities. It is fair to say that Gerrard had his best years under Benitez. He won 10 games a season almost single-handed. But, he had players of the caliber of Alonso and Maschereno behind him, doing the dirty work.
After Alonso left in 2009, almost all of Liverpool's managers have felt the need to drop Gerrard into a deeper central midfield role. As already said, this is not his best position at all. He is a good all-round athlete who will give decent-to-good performances in a number of positions, including full back (if needed), but he has lapses in concentration and is too eager to think about going forward first when he is deployed in an out-and-out central midfield role.
In recent times, Lucas Leiva has performed the role of the defensive midfielder admirably, allowing Gerrard to abandon his defensive duties to an extent. The loss of Lucas repeatedly has forced Gerrard back to a deeper role. Joe Allen seems to have been allotted a role deeper than Gerrard, but that is one based more on rotation where Gerrard is frequently required to cover in midfield when his partners foray forward.
It all points to a major failing at Liverpool, in that a player of Gerrard's ability should have a team built around him, not have him forced into a role that doesn't suit his style. For Liverpool, it's a simple choice of whether they have a team or a side built around Gerrard. He is at an awkward age right now, given that Liverpool probably need two to three years time to build a team to be serious about the title.
That's not to say Gerrard is past it; he isn't. He's just not the all-action hero that he used to be. It wouldn't make sense to build a team around someone who will be close to retirement or retired already by the time you get to where you were aiming for.
This is a question that Liverpool Football Club faces. At present, it seems that there is no clear answer to the question because it doesn't look like Liverpool have found that answer. But when they do, the club should be the ones best placed to make that call.
Not Gerrard.
That is the way it is in football. No matter how good and gifted an individual is, no player is bigger than the club.
Bleacher Report
Gerrard, himself, had turned in a very poor performance, though it was a bit harsh that he got so much blame for the first goal when he gave the ball away 80 yards up the pitch.
Brendan Rodgers seems to believe in making Liverpool play the much fancied "tiki taka" way, and Steven Gerrard will no doubt form an important part of his plans. After all, he has been the solution to most problems for Liverpool in recent times.
But right now, is he?
Gerrard is a fine footballer. His technique, unquestionable. But at times on Sunday, he was too direct in the early phases of a move. He always had a tendency to look up and hit a hopeful long pass—also called the "Hollywood ball."
When it came off, it switched his team's focus from defense to attack very quickly. But when it didn't come off, which was the case mostly, it just seemed reckless, especially when there were better placed teammates available for an easier pass.
Now, had this been attempted by any lesser player, he would've been in line for a severe dressing down from the manager, and failure to comply with would've cost him his place in the team.
But this isn't any lesser player. This is Steven Gerrard, and therein lies the problem.
Brendan Rodger’s biggest task lies in trying to drill discipline into him and get him to truly adopt the short-passing approach because if it doesn't work out, you feel Liverpool would rather jettison their boss before their captain.
Gerrard is probably the most talented English midfielder of his generation, possessing practically everything needed to be a success, yet he has achieved so little of it.
Now, he obviously has tried hard to raise himself up to what is a king-like position at Anfield, and he has done that. Once there, it gave him more and more scope to try things, particularly with long-range shooting, which has provided much of his most sensational contributions.
For years and years, it has worked for him and the club, and the man has provided countless moments of real quality. But then off late, the very same aura has affected the team as a whole.
As Jonathan Wilson stated in his article for The Guardian:
He is "Mr. Liverpool," "Captain Fantastic" and in the eyes of Liverpool fans, he can do no wrong. His position in the team is assured, no what matter what his performance.
In his prime and pomp, he was certainly more of a benefit than a detriment. He gave real drive and goal threat for his side. At times, you could almost sense his desire to win pulling the team on. Some of his greatest performances have been delivered at key moments for Liverpool.
However, as it is with age, the injuries started to catch up with him. This coincided with Liverpool's fall from Champions League contenders and on his return, a less fit, a less agile Gerrard took it on himself to bring his beloved club back to its glory days.
His belief that he had to drive the game forward, that he had to do it alone, that he should have the ball passed to him, that he should shoot from anywhere and everywhere, has now started to let him and his teammates down more often.
It was very apparent at the start of last season where too often it looked like he didn't trust his own teammates and was always trying to make things happen himself.
While Gerrard by himself is a great asset to the team, bringing in not only his experience and authority, but also individual skill, it still takes a smart AND strong manager to outweigh the said authority and make him play in the system and for the team.
There is a grain of truth in the suggestion that he, despite being able to win games on his own at times, plays a disruptive role by not trusting them enough and trying to do everything on his own all over the pitch.
He wants to be everywhere, and he sometimes gets into an area he doesn't need to be in and the zone becomes over-occupied, leading to gaps elsewhere.
And that leads us to one of the biggest problems and questions with Steven Gerrard—What is his best position ?
The problem is not necessarily with Steven Gerrard himself, but how coaches use him and how fans perceive him. A lot of people (and some of his coaches) seem to think Gerrard is either a box-to-box midfielder like Lampard or a defensive midfielder in the style of Roy Keane.
No. Actually, he's not.
Gerrard is at his best as a marauding attacking midfielder. The player I would compare him to—bear with me—is Kaka. It might not be the natural comparison and aesthetically they look quite different as players, but Gerrard likes to operate in the same areas.
He doesn't glide past opponent like Kaka, he powers past them, but his attacking instincts are the same. He plays best and is most comfortable operating on a flank or further forward, just behind a striker in a central role. He needs to have freedom to attack, to run at opponents, he needs to be allowed to shoot and put in crosses.
Gerrard has never been a proper central midfielder. He lacks the required positional discipline and although his pace and conditioning helped him bomb between penalty boxes when he was younger and put in eye-catching last-ditch tackles, injuries and age have eroded his ability to react quickly which is required to shield his defense.
Gerrard was the closest that England had to the free-roving playmaker employed by a number of teams. This player has no defensive responsibilities and is tasked with playing most of his football in the opponent's third of the pitch. Gerrard has/had the guile and the know-how to unlock defenses. You just don't want to rely on him to protect yours.
Rafael Benitez had the right idea with Gerrard. He should either play out on the right or behind the main striker but never as a central midfielder with responsibilities as he can't be trusted. Gerrard was at his best in Benitez's system with two-deep lying midfielders behind him and Kuyt on the right. All these players could work to cover Gerrard's lack of positional discipline.
He was used in a system that made the most of his abilities. It is fair to say that Gerrard had his best years under Benitez. He won 10 games a season almost single-handed. But, he had players of the caliber of Alonso and Maschereno behind him, doing the dirty work.
After Alonso left in 2009, almost all of Liverpool's managers have felt the need to drop Gerrard into a deeper central midfield role. As already said, this is not his best position at all. He is a good all-round athlete who will give decent-to-good performances in a number of positions, including full back (if needed), but he has lapses in concentration and is too eager to think about going forward first when he is deployed in an out-and-out central midfield role.
In recent times, Lucas Leiva has performed the role of the defensive midfielder admirably, allowing Gerrard to abandon his defensive duties to an extent. The loss of Lucas repeatedly has forced Gerrard back to a deeper role. Joe Allen seems to have been allotted a role deeper than Gerrard, but that is one based more on rotation where Gerrard is frequently required to cover in midfield when his partners foray forward.
It all points to a major failing at Liverpool, in that a player of Gerrard's ability should have a team built around him, not have him forced into a role that doesn't suit his style. For Liverpool, it's a simple choice of whether they have a team or a side built around Gerrard. He is at an awkward age right now, given that Liverpool probably need two to three years time to build a team to be serious about the title.
That's not to say Gerrard is past it; he isn't. He's just not the all-action hero that he used to be. It wouldn't make sense to build a team around someone who will be close to retirement or retired already by the time you get to where you were aiming for.
This is a question that Liverpool Football Club faces. At present, it seems that there is no clear answer to the question because it doesn't look like Liverpool have found that answer. But when they do, the club should be the ones best placed to make that call.
Not Gerrard.
That is the way it is in football. No matter how good and gifted an individual is, no player is bigger than the club.
Bleacher Report
RedWill
Expert Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
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- 1,100
I wouldn't mind seeing Gerrard deployed in a false-nine position in the next couple of games, sort of the way Spain played without a real striker at Euro2012, with Suarez out wide and Sterling/Borini on the other flank. This will allow for midfield control in Allen, Sahin and Shelvey/Henderson - younger guys who can chase hard and close down; with Stevie in the middle it should relieve some pressure on Suarez to be both creator and scorer.
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