Official Liverpool FC Supporters Thread III

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curbs2012

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hawker said:
You forget that we couldn't keep a clean sheet to save our lives then either.
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Not to dig up those emotions from that game in particular, but I have often wondered whether that team would have been capable of playing for a draw, or been able to adjust their way of playing, when you consider how successful that particular way was that season. The players, like SAS, Hendo (although he missed that game) and others, were much more comfortable attacking, I am just not sure whether asking them to do something totally different, or out of character for some, might have been more of a hindrance...but that's just a thought I've had when people say we should have played for a draw, or played differently.
 
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droidx

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curbs2012 said:
Dont personally know of any united supporters that are celebrating the draw, but have spoken to quite a few that are more than satisfied with the result, aka not having lost. All of them recognize that united did very well to stop LFC from playing (LFC didn't help themselves much either) and credit to united for doing so, they executed their plans much better on the night than we did. Hence Klopp's comments about us having to make sure that we play better in these types of matches, and that we can and should have played much better.

So no, I don't know any of your lot that are celebrating it, but what I have heard from quite a few of the ones I have spoken to, is the manner in which you went about it, which touches on your next comment regarding style of play or pragmatism.

If we ignore united under Lvg, united in the first 8 games this season have not exactly played with a real 'zip', or 'flair' or the 'united way' as so many ppl like to say about a particular team and their ways. See Stoke for example...Pulis' shadow still looms large when what Hughes is trying to do doesn't work... but in united's case, I think united fans will have to get used to the way jose plays and sets up his teams. Yes, he will adjust it, adapt it to the opposition, but his 'style' is often based on power...physicality and seeking to dominate opposition using those elements. His Chelsea team had Drogba up top, with Makhelele and Lampard in the middle, Terry and co at the back as an example, and for a long while, Drogba in particular was unplayable. It worked.

He also uses a 'siege mentality' approach as motivation. Us against the world. The world is out to deny us. That will work, for a while, but not long term, I don't think.

I think it is far too early to 'judge' him at united, their 'style' or the success or failure of certain players. Trying to pass judgement so soon I think it would be unfair. What is not unfair however, would be for certain supporters of other teams, like united, to admit when they got it wrong when they passed early judgement on some of LFC's players, like Henderson, or Firmino, or Lallana (mind you many of us did too), and more recently Gini. Players, like everyone in new environments need to time to adjust and settle to be able to perform at their best. Some settle quicker than others... not sure about Depay though... :D but hey...there's time.

Just some thoughts...
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Good point on early judgement, well done for admitting that Liverpool fans were quick to write-off their own players too.
Some United fans were going on about who signed who, I kept out of that, because a 4m player can turn out better than an 80m one.
A quote I read on a comments section earlier: "A player is a person with emotions, ups and downs, has to fit right and does not just reflect a price tag that someone else placed on him. Just because he cost a lot does not mean he will be a success."
It is about Pogba, but could be true for anyone, a price tag may place expectation but it will not define performance, the player does not decide his price either, and it also places pressure that has to be dealt with. Players are humans and sometimes change is unsettling, I think it is way too early to judge. Expectation may be fair, but United didn't buy him for the short term, or that amount of money would not have been spent.
Klopp builds a system and buys players to fit into this system, so knocking buys because they are cheap or unknown is a risky stance to take. Two different managers, two different styles. Klopp is about building (and I envy this) Mourinho is about immediate success, which I think is what United are trying to get, and it could all blow up. There is no more patience in the game, success brings cash and there are huge sponsorship deals in place, United simply cannot afford to dawdle outside the elite for too long. So they have chosen this route. My view was to give Van Gaal his last season, and Maybe Giggs would be ready and there would be something we could build on (think I was called crazy by another United fan for suggesting we keep LVG :D) but that would have been more with the identity of the club, which is also a business and I guess executive decisions needed to be made.
On the celebration front, it was just a question as I had seen this a few times. Acceptance is not celebration. Many United fans I know personally expected nothing from this game, some expected a thrashing, so coming away with a point is acceptable the way things currently stand.

AfricanTech said:
I think that's a fair summary. Again, outside of banter, Mourinho assessed where United are at this point in their development and made a pragmatic decision, that while not pretty, was the correct one under the circumstances. Liverpool are clearly the better team so far this season.

A loss to Liverpool after the recent results by ManU would have created unbearable pressure in the United camp.

PS: I agree re: BR's lack of pragmatism - had we gone for a dour draw against Chelsea, we'd have won the League.

PS2: He's not the manager he was 10 years ago though - I quite liked him then. He appears to have become bitter and doesn't (by outward appearance at least) appear to even enjoy the game anymore. Sad to see actually.
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Agreed, a loss to Liverpool would have damaged United and given rivals a huge boost (Liverpool would be joint top).
Mourinho knows he could not afford that. Form changes throughout the season and very rarely does is one team able to keep it on the up for the entire season. Some teams with magnificent early season form end up fourth.
I think this is Mourinho's stance, the premier league is not a 100m sprint and some people were crowning City champions after 6 unbeaten games. Some Arsenal fans had a moan in the beginning of the season and they are now joint top.
Do I like United's current approach? No, but I do understand it, and I was ready for it when Mourinho was hired because this is what he does.
I agree that he doesn't seem to be the manager he was back then, but he had one really bad season, it can happen, players downed tools and his methods didn't work anymore.
It will be interesting to see how things stand at the midpoint of the season and then that tiring run from March to May.
I think this will be an exciting title race, I do not expect United to finish on top.

Thanks for the level responses gents, sometimes it is nice to engage in discussion rather than banter.
 
AfricanTech

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curbs2012 said:
Not to dig up those emotions from that game in particular, but I have often wondered whether that team would have been capable of playing for a draw, or been able to adjust their way of playing, when you consider how successful that particular way was that season. The players, like SAS, Hendo (although he missed that game) and others, were much more comfortable attacking, I am just not sure whether asking them to do something totally different, or out of character for some, might have been more of a hindrance...but that's just a thought I've had when people say we should have played for a draw, or played differently.
Click to expand...

Yeah, its history now, but the reality is that we really didn't have to play that high a line in that particular game - Mou hadn't come to attack so there was no need to expose ourselves the way we did.

BR exposed his lack of experience in that game.

Ah well.
 
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curbs2012

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droidx said:
Good point on early judgement, well done for admitting that Liverpool fans were quick to write-off their own players too.
Some United fans were going on about who signed who, I kept out of that, because a 4m player can turn out better than an 80m one.
A quote I read on a comments section earlier: "A player is a person with emotions, ups and downs, has to fit right and does not just reflect a price tag that someone else placed on him. Just because he cost a lot does not mean he will be a success."
It is about Pogba, but could be true for anyone, a price tag may place expectation but it will not define performance, the player does not decide his price either, and it also places pressure that has to be dealt with. Players are humans and sometimes change is unsettling, I think it is way too early to judge. Expectation may be fair, but United didn't buy him for the short term, or that amount of money would not have been spent.
Klopp builds a system and buys players to fit into this system, so knocking buys because they are cheap or unknown is a risky stance to take. Two different managers, two different styles. Klopp is about building (and I envy this) Mourinho is about immediate success, which I think is what United are trying to get, and it could all blow up. There is no more patience in the game, success brings cash and there are huge sponsorship deals in place, United simply cannot afford to dawdle outside the elite for too long. So they have chosen this route. My view was to give Van Gaal his last season, and Maybe Giggs would be ready and there would be something we could build on (think I was called crazy by another United fan for suggesting we keep LVG :D) but that would have been more with the identity of the club, which is also a business and I guess executive decisions needed to be made.
On the celebration front, it was just a question as I had seen this a few times. Acceptance is not celebration. Many United fans I know personally expected nothing from this game, some expected a thrashing, so coming away with a point is acceptable the way things currently stand.


Agreed, a loss to Liverpool would have damaged United and given rivals a huge boost (Liverpool would be joint top).
Mourinho knows he could not afford that. Form changes throughout the season and very rarely does is one team able to keep it on the up for the entire season. Some teams with magnificent early season form end up fourth.
I think this is Mourinho's stance, the premier league is not a 100m sprint and some people were crowning City champions after 6 unbeaten games. Some Arsenal fans had a moan in the beginning of the season and they are now joint top.
Do I like United's current approach? No, but I do understand it, and I was ready for it when Mourinho was hired because this is what he does.
I agree that he doesn't seem to be the manager he was back then, but he had one really bad season, it can happen, players downed tools and his methods didn't work anymore.
It will be interesting to see how things stand at the midpoint of the season and then that tiring run from March to May.
I think this will be an exciting title race, I do not expect United to finish on top.

Thanks for the level responses gents, sometimes it is nice to engage in discussion rather than banter.
Click to expand...


We do try don't we.... :D

Imagine how level headed we'd have been had we won... ;)
 
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Liverpool:
Karius,
Clyne, Matip, Lovren, Milner,
Lallana, Henderson, Can
Mane, Firmino, Coutinho.

Subs: Mignolet, Moreno, Origi, Lucas, Klavan, Sturridge, Wijnaldum.
 
AfricanTech

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First goal - Firmino curled it over the 3rd defender perfectly for Mane

Second goal - a sweetly weighted pass from Mane, Coutinho diddles one, and puts in at the near post past the GK and two other WBA defenders

BBC - Roberto Firmino has had a hand in 17 goals (12 goals, 5 assists) for Liverpool in the Premier League in 2016. That's more than any other Reds player.
 
akescpt

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Should be three. Ridiculous really. Don't care if the block was great.
 
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