Official Liverpool FC Supporters Thread III

[Wall]

I'll bitchslap you back to Africa !!!!

My expectations for this team has dwindled over the last few weeks.

that said, i'm now a bit more confident about beating Blackburn than I was when I posted that

 

[RexxGrim]

My expectations for this team has dwindled over the last few weeks.

that said, i'm now a bit more confident about beating Blackburn than I was when I posted that

Blackburn missing 10 players through injury, maybe that'll help to up your confidence.

 

[Maverick Jester]

Sure, probably more than we know of, but in the end this is a results driven business and that is how most managers are measured, as perceived by fans. Had Kenny gotten 4th that year, would FSG still have given him the boot? Are different metrics applicable to Rodgers despite his woeful transfer record, his European failures, being outclassed by the top 4 clubs this season (P9 W1 D1 L7 if i recall) and his repeated tendency to put his foot into it in the media?

I've not seen anyone with his level of ability to do so, though. It's pretty impressive.

 

[Wall]

Blackburn missing 10 players through injury, maybe that'll help to up your confidence.

It did help

 

[RanzB]

Sure, probably more than we know of, but in the end this is a results driven business and that is how most managers are measured, as perceived by fans. Had Kenny gotten 4th that year, would FSG still have given him the boot? Are different metrics applicable to Rodgers despite his woeful transfer record, his European failures, being outclassed by the top 4 clubs this season (P9 W1 D1 L7 if i recall) and his repeated tendency to put his foot into it in the media?

He also got you back into CL, however briefly, and finished second last season. He's also young.

I've not seen anyone with his level of ability to do so, though. It's pretty impressive.

Rafa and Keegan weren't amateurs at it either.

 

[Unhappy438]

Surely Kenny was worse with the media than Rodgers?

 

[Maverick Jester]

Rafa and Keegan weren't amateurs at it either.

LOL, not at all.

Surely Kenny was worse with the media than Rodgers?

Depends, I think. I've not seen anyone have to backtrack on statements or defend what he has said as much as Rodgers has, nor do I remember any manager making such boneheaded statements only for them to backfire spectacularly:

"Look at Tottenham. If you spend more than £100 million, you expect to be challenging for the league."

“Southampton don’t have to sell, they have a choice. Maybe their objectives have changed. They were looking to be a Champions League club, I believe.”

“It’s not difficult to coach to just get 10 players right on your 18-yard box.”

“The best players want to play in the best competition. Any club will suffer the same when they’re not in there. It will hurt you, and United will know that.”

"The idea was that Aspas would give another dimension to our attacking play, and he's done that. He creates goals and scores goals. We now have some outstanding talent who can make a difference in the final third - and that has been the most encouraging thing, that we have real quality in that final third where it matters."

I could go on, but you get the idea

 

[Unhappy438]

Depends, I think. I've not seen anyone have to backtrack on statements or defend what he has said as much as Rodgers has, nor do I remember any manager making such boneheaded statements only for them to backfire spectacularly:
I could go on, but you get the idea

Dont get me wrong i think Rodgers is poor with the media. However the way Kenny handled in particular the Suarez incident was imo far worse than anything Rodgers has done. Rodgers has probably had more "smaller" incidents but then hes been the manager for longer.

[video=youtube;u-LlwzIFhkA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-LlwzIFhkA[/video]

 

[Maverick Jester]

Dont get me wrong i think Rodgers is poor with the media. However the way Kenny handled in particular the Suarez incident was imo far worse than anything Rodgers has done. Rodgers has probably had more "smaller" incidents but then hes been the manager for longer.

[video=youtube;u-LlwzIFhkA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-LlwzIFhkA[/video]

Yeah, the Suarez thing was really, really bad. But I think that they are different in that Kenny was just really bad, while Rodgers assumes he is a genius while continually putting his foot in his mouth.

 

[RedWill]

He also got you back into CL, however briefly, and finished second last season. He's also young.

What does that mean? Don't think he has an extended period of time...in this fast paced era success needs to come relatively quickly for a club with LFC's ambitions otherwise lag behind for a long time. BR certainly has got his qualities, but the club will have to make an honest assessment if he is capable to take it a step further and lift them up into an established force in the country and in Europe, considering his current failings.

Current managers of the top 4 are Mourinho, Wenger, van Gaal and Pellegrini.... Experienced successful multiple league, cup and European title winners. The relation is simple, if you want your club to mingle with the best you got to get a top manager for the job. Rodgers may be one of the best coaches around at present, but as a manager he is still overawed. Can LFC afford another 3,4,5 years to see if he can step up?

 

[RedWill]

Surely Kenny was worse with the media than Rodgers?

Kenny never hid his disdain for the media, but he hardly backtracked the way Rodgers does. Kenny did his best to defend the club; even though the Suarez saga was not handled in the best manner.

 

[Unhappy438]

Yeah, the Suarez thing was really, really bad. But I think that they are different in that Kenny was just really bad, while Rodgers assumes he is a genius while continually putting his foot in his mouth.

Kenny never hid his disdain for the media, but he hardly backtracked the way Rodgers does. Kenny did his best to defend the club; even though the Suarez saga was not handled in the best manner.

All true

 

[Maverick Jester]

Current managers of the top 4 are Mourinho, Wenger, van Gaal and Pellegrini.... Experienced successful multiple league, cup and European title winners. The relation is simple, if you want your club to mingle with the best you got to get a top manager for the job. Rodgers may be one of the best coaches around at present, but as a manager he is still overawed. Can LFC afford another 3,4,5 years to see if he can step up?

How else will he reach their level if he is dismissed without given the opportunity to improve?

 

[RedWill]

How else will he reach their level if he is dismissed without given the opportunity to improve?

Not saying he should just be dismissed out right now; but there needs to be a thorough and honest assessment made if he really is the manager that can take the club (and himself) to that level. That should be based on his time here so far; his transfer dealings (or involvement therein), his man management of players, his media interactions, his tactics and squad management (in terms of bizarre or stubborn selections at times), his ability/reputation to attract top-class talent to come to the club, etc...

Remember, this is a guy with absolutely no record of winning anything, should LFC really be his training ground?

 

[Unhappy438]

Not saying he should just be dismissed out right now; but there needs to be a thorough and honest assessment made if he really is the manager that can take the club (and himself) to that level. That should be based on his time here so far; his transfer dealings (or involvement therein), his man management of players, his media interactions, his tactics and squad management (in terms of bizarre or stubborn selections at times), his ability/reputation to attract top-class talent to come to the club, etc...

Remember, this is a guy with absolutely no record of winning anything, should LFC really be his training ground?

I think Liverpool need to get their transfer business done right and i don't think that's necessarily all Rodgers fault. Imo signings like Balotelli were forced on him and they were buying poorly long before Rodgers. Its strange though because they had a real opportunity to get good players with CL at the beginning of the season but ended up with average ones.

 

[Maverick Jester]

Not saying he should just be dismissed out right now; but there needs to be a thorough and honest assessment made if he really is the manager that can take the club (and himself) to that level. That should be based on his time here so far; his transfer dealings (or involvement therein), his man management of players, his media interactions, his tactics and squad management (in terms of bizarre or stubborn selections at times), his ability/reputation to attract top-class talent to come to the club, etc...

I think that if such an assessment were to be done, he would come out with quite a positive net ratio. He has transformed the club, and may not have lead them to quantifiable success, but it's hard to look at this team and remember the absolute dross they were under Hodgson, and for a long time under Kenny. He's also had to contend with other factors influencing his decision making and transfer policy. The transfer targets he earmarked were all missed for a variety of reasons- Willian, Costa, Rojo, Mkhitaryan, Remy- but the club had to make alternative plans and so they did, albeit poorly.

Remember, this is a guy with absolutely no record of winning anything, should LFC really be his training ground?

Mourinho had no record of winning anything when Porto took him on, either. And look at him today.

I think Liverpool need to get their transfer business done right and i don't think that's necessarily all Rodgers fault. Imo signings like Balotelli were forced on him and they were buying poorly long before Rodgers. Its strange though because they had a real opportunity to get good players with CL at the beginning of the season but ended up with average ones.

This, so much this. As much as they missed out on a number of targets over the past few years, their transfer committee has done poorly regardless.

 

[RanzB]

Not saying he should just be dismissed out right now; but there needs to be a thorough and honest assessment made if he really is the manager that can take the club (and himself) to that level. That should be based on his time here so far; his transfer dealings (or involvement therein), his man management of players, his media interactions, his tactics and squad management (in terms of bizarre or stubborn selections at times), his ability/reputation to attract top-class talent to come to the club, etc...

Remember, this is a guy with absolutely no record of winning anything, should LFC really be his training ground?

I think from all of this, he needs to work on his man-management the most.

 

[RedWill]

I think Liverpool need to get their transfer business done right and i don't think that's necessarily all Rodgers fault. Imo signings like Balotelli were forced on him and they were buying poorly long before Rodgers. Its strange though because they had a real opportunity to get good players with CL at the beginning of the season but ended up with average ones.

IMO the buck stops with him. Rodgers himself said he has the final say, and maybe more pertinent, he refused to work with a DOF who could have taken a lot of transfer related pressure off him. Yes the transfer committee overall is a fail, but if you want to proclaim yourself the star man, you gotta take the punches coming your way.

I think that if such an assessment were to be done, he would come out with quite a positive net ratio. He has transformed the club, and may not have lead them to quantifiable success, but it's hard to look at this team and remember the absolute dross they were under Hodgson, and for a long time under Kenny. He's also had to contend with other factors influencing his decision making and transfer policy. The transfer targets he earmarked were all missed for a variety of reasons- Willian, Costa, Rojo, Mkhitaryan, Remy- but the club had to make alternative plans and so they did, albeit poorly.

Yes in general he transformed the playing style of the club and was able to achieve some performances/streaks. But that is more an indication of good coaching (most of the time). The question is his ability to be a top-class manager for a club wanting to compete at the very top end.

Mourinho had no record of winning anything when Porto took him on, either. And look at him today.

To be fair, the European pedigree and world wide appeal of Liverpool and Porto cannot be directly compared; even since the success Mourinho had with them. Mourinho was a talented manager who became bigger than the club he first won with...for Rodgers, the club and its expectations is probably a step too far, too soon.

 

[Vis1/0N]

Too much analysis here.
What is missing?
Suarez duh.
World class centre forward on form.
Corners. Free kicks and penalties. Attacking the box. Creating (not feigning) fouls in the opposition's half.

From December until before the Southampton/Besiktas games we were taking more than 20 shots per game or so. Drew Arsenal and won against Swansea, Westham, Tottenham, Southampton, City when they were above us in the table.

Played Blackburn then Swansea and look poor, few chances created and then 2 dire games. Still no in form centre forward. Lack of corners, fouls, free kicks. Failing to see managers big shortcoming in this slump that requires so much of analysis.

 

[Maverick Jester]

Yes in general he transformed the playing style of the club and was able to achieve some performances/streaks. But that is more an indication of good coaching (most of the time). The question is his ability to be a top-class manager for a club wanting to compete at the very top end.

Sure, that question is still to be answered, but by all accounts he looks to be on the right path. As you mentioned- the only people really keeping him out of the top 4 are some of the most experienced and excellent coaches in world football. Last season, he more than held his own against them, and he has the benefit of youth to learn from all of these men. He's shown that while still possessing a very stubborn streak, he is not afraid to change when things are not going to plan.

Also, I think that he has matched Liverpool's expectations season after season. When he joined, they were mired in midtable and looked destined to spend at least 5 years there. He took them back into the CL in 3, when he had a plan to do so in 4, all without the sort of backing that other managers have had.

To be fair, the European pedigree and world wide appeal of Liverpool and Porto cannot be directly compared; even since the success Mourinho had with them. Mourinho was a talented manager who became bigger than the club he first won with...for Rodgers, the club and its expectations is probably a step too far, too soon.

Depends on the viewpoint, IMO. Porto are the Portuguese equivalent of Liverpool, so I wouldn't say that Mourinho became bigger than them in that respect- more a case of overall European ability and potential for success. Liverpool are actually a few pegs down currently, despite their steeped history. Rodgers matches that- they're still a young team, with the expectations to match.