Official Manchester United Supporters' Thread Part 4

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cenredash

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fishfly said:
Yeah not thanks to you you jinxed us when I asked if we would qualify before this last match... :(
Anyhow typical OGS if he had just taken Fred off after the escape from the headbutt who knows we could have just let the 2nd string play this match.

Honestly I feel DDG's time is up - he is too quiet at the back and doesn't seem to command his defence the way Henderson can, not sure WTF OGS is doing putting DDG in goal again
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I jinxed us? You know you're the one that jinxed us with talk of finishing first or second when the results were not secure.

Completely agree tho. Pure naivety from ole in that fred send off.
 
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cenredash

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RB leipzig 3 united left backs 3

Ole relying too much on his football manager tactics.
 
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fishfly

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cenredash said:
RB leipzig 3 united left backs 3

Ole relying too much on his football manager tactics.
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Honestly this is as far as OGS will get us - he will never win any trophies with his management style.

DDG is performing poorly - you can clearly see there is no communication between him, Maguire and Lindelof. Which is creating a rift between Maguire and Lindelof in terms of communication and covering - perhaps fatigue is to blame or playing so many matches in such a short time is impacting the defence but these last 3 matches you can clearly see our midfield is being overrun, we only seem to have possession within our own half and between Lindelof/Maguire/AWB/LB they have the most touches of the ball in every single match which doesn't help if they can't communicate between each other and the goalkeeper.
This 3rd goal from RBL you can clearly see DDG didn't even shout at Maguire to CLEAR and Maguire just lets it run past him.
Of course DDG didn't help himself either by turning away and going into the tackle feet first - where is the dedication to pluck the ball out of the feet of attackers or even make yourself as BIG as possible to prevent the ball from getting past you. He made himself rather small...
 
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cenredash

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fishfly said:
Honestly this is as far as OGS will get us - he will never win any trophies with his management style.

DDG is performing poorly - you can clearly see there is no communication between him, Maguire and Lindelof. Which is creating a rift between Maguire and Lindelof in terms of communication and covering - perhaps fatigue is to blame or playing so many matches in such a short time is impacting the defence but these last 3 matches you can clearly see our midfield is being overrun, we only seem to have possession within our own half and between Lindelof/Maguire/AWB/LB they have the most touches of the ball in every single match which doesn't help if they can't communicate between each other and the goalkeeper.
This 3rd goal from RBL you can clearly see DDG didn't even shout at Maguire to CLEAR and Maguire just lets it run past him.
Of course DDG didn't help himself either by turning away and going into the tackle feet first - where is the dedication to pluck the ball out of the feet of attackers or even make yourself as BIG as possible to prevent the ball from getting past you. He made himself rather small...
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Think it is fatigue, but also poor formation and poor player management leading up to this. Can't blame him for one game but it hurts that every game is a must win, and those last minute second half strong finishes (as much as we did finish strongly) your luck can run out, like it did last night. Although last night wasn't just luck against us, its poor management.

So we start with unfamiliar tactics of 5 at the back and a guy that's just come back from injury (when, as bad as lindelof, de gea, maguire has been as a combo, at least it is familiar). You also put two left backs in to play on top of each other, and expose wan bissaka. Obviously AWB was told to make the game narrower, but greenwood was too green to be able to help (not enough experience, no blame on him) because otherwise they'll run through the middle, and angelino had all the space in the world.

About the left side, we packed that side and didn't know how to use it, as much as they offer different things in terms of final third of the field, they used up the same space. With Rashford and Bruno also often tending to that side (at least in the first half) you had 4 on the left, plus maguire covering, and matic. So 4 people and matic trying to occupy the same spaces, there's nowhere to run, and 2/5 are slow passers in matic and shaw, and the other three are short sharp one-two passers of the ball. You didn't need many defenders covering those 5, RBL used 3 with high energy pressing, and the managed to mess up or get in each other's way all the time.

So just too congested leaving first mctominay to have to patrol huge areas along with AWB, and the two of them having to cover 3+1, or 3+2 when the second or third midfielders joined, or swung the ball wide to the flanks.

Back to Thursday night football, and it looks more competitive than ever. From a player point of view I would have preferred not playing the Thursday nights rather. It is what i say every year that we're in europa, but more so this year.
 
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fishfly

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cenredash said:
Think it is fatigue, but also poor formation and poor player management leading up to this. Can't blame him for one game but it hurts that every game is a must win, and those last minute second half strong finishes (as much as we did finish strongly) your luck can run out, like it did last night. Although last night wasn't just luck against us, its poor management.

So we start with unfamiliar tactics of 5 at the back and a guy that's just come back from injury (when, as bad as lindelof, de gea, maguire has been as a combo, at least it is familiar). You also put two left backs in to play on top of each other, and expose wan bissaka. Obviously AWB was told to make the game narrower, but greenwood was too green to be able to help (not enough experience, no blame on him) because otherwise they'll run through the middle, and angelino had all the space in the world.

About the left side, we packed that side and didn't know how to use it, as much as they offer different things in terms of final third of the field, they used up the same space. With Rashford and Bruno also often tending to that side (at least in the first half) you had 4 on the left, plus maguire covering, and matic. So 4 people and matic trying to occupy the same spaces, there's nowhere to run, and 2/5 are slow passers in matic and shaw, and the other three are short sharp one-two passers of the ball. You didn't need many defenders covering those 5, RBL used 3 with high energy pressing, and the managed to mess up or get in each other's way all the time.

So just too congested leaving first mctominay to have to patrol huge areas along with AWB, and the two of them having to cover 3+1, or 3+2 when the second or third midfielders joined, or swung the ball wide to the flanks.

Back to Thursday night football, and it looks more competitive than ever. From a player point of view I would have preferred not playing the Thursday nights rather. It is what i say every year that we're in europa, but more so this year.
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Yeah the tactics was piss poor again last night but majority of my gripe is the fact that DDG doesn't command his box well enough - he never comes out to pluck a cross out of the air, he isn't vocal to give Maguire and Lindelof commands to defend him/mark defenders/close space. Shouting at them after a goal has been conceeded due to poor defence is not commanding the defence but breaking the defenders confidence and comminucation.

Every time he concedes a goal he always looks down to the floor - possibly blaming himself for not being able to save the shot... It shouldn't be like that it is Lindelof/Maguire/AWB/Shaw's responsibility to prevent clear cut opportunities for the opponents to score easily - We managed to do that last season on the run to reaching 3rd. What has changed? Maguire losing confidence after his court case in Greece? Our defence is regressing and it is up to OGS to stop the rot but instead he throws the defences to the opponents by subbing only attacking players on (against PSG, against RBL, against Soton, etc). OGS keeps allowing Rashford and Greenwood the freedom up front with almost 0 defence work which puts a lot of pressure on the back 4.

We need to get back to basics start defending as a unit and build confidence with a few clean sheets.
 
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cenredash

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Well, that game went pretty much as I expected, the way we both were playing was that we agreed on a draw and no injuries. Hopefully we can put another 3 past Sheffield, this time without conceding 3 or more!

And then Leeds. Of course I'd be happy with 6, or even 4. Anything less and we're back to the drawing board.

Tactically the game against City was one of our better ones, although Ole often does okay against top 6 teams.

We kept two up front most of the game but again we do the silly buggers of playing out from the back, against a high pressing team. I think we're missing options in the midfield or we need to realise that Maguire and Lindelof, and McTom and Fred can't really release the good long ball from the back foot. Fred and Maguire is okay for the long ball when they've got space in front of them.

AWB when he gets closed down he tries to dribble out, at least Shaw tries to get out with one-two's and that's not really an option for AWB because their usually aren't smart options wide right for AWB playing out from the back. Usually McTom is there but he also gets closed down and gets flustered.

We need a more holistic approach to our play if we decide to stick to playing out from the back. We need lots more options, and that's why I like Pep. Whereas Ole regards the players as being able to express themselves and gives them the freedom to play, Pep is a better coach that gives each player a framework within which to play. Freedom in a framework allows them to become excellent, well coached and familiar with each other, so it doesn't matter who comes on, its all pieces in a puzzle. Ole's all about intensity and skill and freedom, with a few players having that framework, really just our deep lying mids.

I'm guessing we're starting Mata on Thursday again as the knee jerk reaction to lacking creativity on Saturday night.
 
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fishfly

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cenredash said:
Well, that game went pretty much as I expected, the way we both were playing was that we agreed on a draw and no injuries. Hopefully we can put another 3 past Sheffield, this time without conceding 3 or more!

And then Leeds. Of course I'd be happy with 6, or even 4. Anything less and we're back to the drawing board.

Tactically the game against City was one of our better ones, although Ole often does okay against top 6 teams.

We kept two up front most of the game but again we do the silly buggers of playing out from the back, against a high pressing team. I think we're missing options in the midfield or we need to realise that Maguire and Lindelof, and McTom and Fred can't really release the good long ball from the back foot. Fred and Maguire is okay for the long ball when they've got space in front of them.

AWB when he gets closed down he tries to dribble out, at least Shaw tries to get out with one-two's and that's not really an option for AWB because their usually aren't smart options wide right for AWB playing out from the back. Usually McTom is there but he also gets closed down and gets flustered.

We need a more holistic approach to our play if we decide to stick to playing out from the back. We need lots more options, and that's why I like Pep. Whereas Ole regards the players as being able to express themselves and gives them the freedom to play, Pep is a better coach that gives each player a framework within which to play. Freedom in a framework allows them to become excellent, well coached and familiar with each other, so it doesn't matter who comes on, its all pieces in a puzzle. Ole's all about intensity and skill and freedom, with a few players having that framework, really just our deep lying mids.

I'm guessing we're starting Mata on Thursday again as the knee jerk reaction to lacking creativity on Saturday night.
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I actually like it when Mata is playing together with Bruno Fernandes, the problem against City is up front we were toothless Cavani gives that extra depth to draw defenders out and attacking the near post - a feat that we will never see with Martial/Rashford and Greenwood playing up front, this makes it easier for the opponents CB to organise the defence when there's no one putting pressure on them.

I think once this season is over we really need to look at bringing in Erlaand... that kid's potential with Fernandes/rashford/Martial rampaging behind him will be like a Ruud signing
 
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cenredash

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fishfly said:
I actually like it when Mata is playing together with Bruno Fernandes, the problem against City is up front we were toothless Cavani gives that extra depth to draw defenders out and attacking the near post - a feat that we will never see with Martial/Rashford and Greenwood playing up front, this makes it easier for the opponents CB to organise the defence when there's no one putting pressure on them.
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Totally agree, Cavani gives the team options in pulling the opposition defenders out of their comfort zones. His constant movement is great for everyone.
 
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Shi

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Draw in full ... United are home in the 2nd leg (being seeded)

Wolfsberger vs Tottenham
Dynamo Kiev vs Club Brugge
Real Sociedad vs Manchester United
Benfica vs Arsenal
Red Star Belgrade vs AC Milan
Royal Antwerp vs Rangers
Slavia Prague vs Leicester
Salzburg vs Villarreal
Braga vs Roma
Krasnodar vs Dinamo Zagreb
Young Boys vs Bayer Leverkusen
Molde vs Hoffenheim
Granada vs Napoli
Maccabi Tel-Aviv vs Shakhtar Donetsk
Lille vs Ajax
Olympiakos vs PSV
 
Neoprod

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Good team selection for a game against the bottom side...and then we make our usual sleepwalking start. Recovery in progress.
 
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