Online Share Trading

fruitbat

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Feb 24, 2008
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Hi,

I currently invest monthly into a few ETFs using etfsa.co.za

I want to look at other options.. so that I can buy (or sell) the ETFs or other types of products as and when I want to.
I've looked at nedbank share trading options (as i have bank with them), and it looks very expensive on the surface with nasty minimum fees.

Is there anything out there that someone can recommend which doesn't cost an arm and a leg in fees?

Or is there a cheaper option that etfsa.co.za that someone can recommend as well?

Thanks
 

Not_original

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Apr 10, 2013
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Good day , currently im into forex but alas a very volatile option in which money can go up or down , will check out the site
 

kdub

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Apr 30, 2010
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I'm with Investec and if you bank with them the online trading is fantastic as the minimum trades are eliminated and the brokerage is 0.5%, which effectively means that you don't have to buy R50000 worth of shares at a time. Only fees are brokerage and the regulatory fees (STRATE etc.)
 

Markd

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Oct 8, 2009
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Hi Jacques,

How long have you been with Std bank trading?
There aren't any fancy quarterly charges? (like a few hundred bucks every quarter)
Just the normal admin fees etc that one would expect?

Thanks

I myself have used Standard Bank for the last 3 years or so, and have only ever paid the monthly admin fee, which over the period in question has varied between R59-R70 if I recall correctly. It's such an insignificant sum, that I more than cover it in the dividends my account receives on an annual basis.

There is room for improvement in the platform itself (like better reporting), but it does what it needs to and gives me the key info i need, so I'm happy with it - very happy.
 

shauntir

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Sep 11, 2013
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I also just registered using the Standard Bank offering. The response to emails seem a bit slow. However, it was the cheapest option I could find and it links to my current SB account.
 

patrick

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Dec 14, 2005
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ABSA is 0.4% with a R120 minimum, so trades need to be R30k each to get best value for money. If you can trade 5x a year they also waive the R800/year subsciption.

Otherwise look at computershare. It's telephonic not online, but only 0.25% fee and no subscription. It'll likely pay you to move your etf's there in any case and avoid the annual fees on those.
 

Gaz{M}

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Feb 9, 2005
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When I looked into Share buying (not Trading - tax implications!), I figured it would not be worth starting until I had at least R60 000 to invest in 6 x R10 000 shares. This is the only way that the fees are low enough and that your risk is spread over enough shares to make it less risky. This is only the start though..

Ideally, you need around 16-20 shares in a portfolio to spread your risk. So you are looking at R160k - R200k.

Until you are in that league, I would recommend you stay with ETF's.
 

fruitbat

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Feb 24, 2008
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Thanks :) I'm def not in that league.. and don't think I will be... (for a while)

I'm def sticking with ETF's. Just looking for something with a little more flexibility than a regular monthly payment.
I've seen the Investec interface. But moving banks is not an option at this stage.
I've signed up with STD Bank now share trading, and am going to test it out.
The only down side is I have to POST documents to JHB, which must all be certified :( So am going to do that this week if i get a chance, otherwise next it it will be.

Thanks for all the comments ALL

When I looked into Share buying (not Trading - tax implications!), I figured it would not be worth starting until I had at least R60 000 to invest in 6 x R10 000 shares. This is the only way that the fees are low enough and that your risk is spread over enough shares to make it less risky. This is only the start though..

Ideally, you need around 16-20 shares in a portfolio to spread your risk. So you are looking at R160k - R200k.

Until you are in that league, I would recommend you stay with ETF's.
 

Markd

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Oct 8, 2009
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When I looked into Share buying (not Trading - tax implications!), I figured it would not be worth starting until I had at least R60 000 to invest in 6 x R10 000 shares. This is the only way that the fees are low enough and that your risk is spread over enough shares to make it less risky. This is only the start though..

Ideally, you need around 16-20 shares in a portfolio to spread your risk. So you are looking at R160k - R200k.

Until you are in that league, I would recommend you stay with ETF's.

I disagree with that. I started buying shares with R3,500. I just researched carefully to find 'the one' i wanted to start with, and made the investment. The cost of the trade was roughly R90 or just over 3%. To me the cost of the trade was covered by the dividend payout I'd get, so all I really needed was growth. I continued on this basis monthly for as long as I could. I made some investments that tanked, but more often than not (roughly 8 times out of 10) I got growth and dividends out of the investments I made. I grew my portfolio to around 13 different shares, and in the 3-4 years that I've done this now, I've had 112% overall growth on my investments (which doesn't include the dividend payouts....which I typically reinvest in another stock when I have enough, and use to pay off my monthly fees).

I've always enjoyed the challenge of trying to outperform the ALSI or Satrix40, and grew to enjoy finding alternative companies to invest in (ones that are more mid cap, or even small cap) and i find that the challenge, learning and performance are very satisfying for me.
 

Gaz{M}

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Yes, but the broker account charges you monthly and/or annual fees, which eat into your share gains each year too. That is where I arrived at the R60 000 mark. Also, buying multiple shares for a few thousand rand at a time is going to cost you transaction fees. If the fees are going to be more than 1% of your annual gains, then how do you plan to outperform good ETF's unless you are lucky to pick the right shares? Especially if you have less than 6 shares to cover that risk?

You make a good point about the dividends though, but I still feel that the fees are money "left on the table" that should go in your pocket. Can a random share really beat a good ETF for <R60 000 invested?
 

Dr Who

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Jun 4, 2010
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I currently use the investec platform as I bank with them and it works well. Does anyone know if you can invest in ETF's on this platform?

My portfolio is one of very high risk as started small with R10,000 in the market. Made some good gains and some terrible blunders. Like selling Netcare at R16 when they now over R23. Oh well. The best part is it gives you a reason to stay in touch with the markets and gain historical knowledge.

I now have an extremely high risk profile as i have 95% of my funds ( R60,000 ) in one share which is doing very well and I have gained 14% growth after deducting any costs associated over the last year.

Which is not bad for a passive investor.
 

Markd

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Yes, but the broker account charges you monthly and/or annual fees, which eat into your share gains each year too. That is where I arrived at the R60 000 mark. Also, buying multiple shares for a few thousand rand at a time is going to cost you transaction fees. If the fees are going to be more than 1% of your annual gains, then how do you plan to outperform good ETF's unless you are lucky to pick the right shares? Especially if you have less than 6 shares to cover that risk?

You make a good point about the dividends though, but I still feel that the fees are money "left on the table" that should go in your pocket. Can a random share really beat a good ETF for <R60 000 invested?

I have a bank account, and it costs be R99 to have it. So spending R50-75 a month to have a trading account, I just see as part of the deal. And its not a big deal to me.

On smaller deals, the cost of making the investment is around 2-3% of the overall amount when we're looking at amounts of R3,500ish (getting less on bigger amounts). If I pick a stock that fails to crack that in a year, I have really failed.

For me there is no luck involved. I don't just pick random stocks from a variety of markets to spread my bets. I spend typically alot of time researching potential investments. I have about 13 in my portfolio as I mentioned, but i have around double that in my watchlist.

I have a strategy and goals. The goal is to outperform the Satrix40 on an annual basis, because if I cant do that, then I may as well just invest in Satrix40 and stop worrying about research etc. The strategy covers which shares i'll invest in and why, based on research. It also covers when I abandon a trade, because they are not all sweet and their are some pitfalls.

It took me alot of time to get to a place where I feel comfortable with what I'm doing (as I literally did start out just randomly picking stocks to 'invest' in, and paid the price accordingly) but I feel good about doing the research, and getting reward for my efforts (or learning from mistakes). Overall I'm achieving my goal, and I think i demonstrate that it can be done successfully on smaller amounts, but ja, it's not necessarily 'easy' i guess.

Edit: I've been trying to check some numbers to check personal performance against goal, and over 4 years the satrix40 has had, I believe, 80% growth. Which is really awesome. I have had a little bit over 100% growth. Which is really, really awesome. And it started with R3,500. I more than cover my costs with dividend payouts, and reinvest the rest. The 'cost' of the trade is just that - the cost of having a chance to make a return. So i don't even worry about that, as i aim to cover it on every trade/investment.
 
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Dr Who

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My only grip small time investing ( as I would term it ) is that when you get a Div payment it ends up sitting in your account until either you invest more capital or make a stock trade.

Not to derail this thread but I am getting very twitchy about the JSE being was to over valued. I mean I have a good horse running but if i chose to profit take I am not sure where I would re-invest.
 

Markd

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My only grip small time investing ( as I would term it ) is that when you get a Div payment it ends up sitting in your account until either you invest more capital or make a stock trade.

Not to derail this thread but I am getting very twitchy about the JSE being was to over valued. I mean I have a good horse running but if i chose to profit take I am not sure where I would re-invest.

Ja you're right, it can take a bit of time to amass enough divs to make a completely new trade. Mine earn about 3.6% interest just sitting there, and I make a top up to the account every now and then to get to the figure i want to make another investment. Again its just like, i try to invest R3,500, and if I have R350 in divs there i either "top up" with R3150, or make a bigger trade (R3850). Either way i try to put the divs to work when i can.

As for the JSE being overvalued, I thought that roughly 2-3 years ago. I remember people just in disbelief that it (the ALSI) had broken 34,000 points and that it would pull back, and where are we now? Same goes for shares like EOH - it's in my watchlist and since its been there its grown over 500%! But I never got in because i didnt understand it well enough, and also just thought its overbought. For me the lesson is if the horse is running, ride it, and have a plan in place if you need to get off in a hurry :)
 
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