[Opinion] Cell masts - the slow, silent killers

Lupus

Lupus

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50,971
SauRoNZA said:
At least we can rest assured that if he can't even get his message across logically around these parts then nobody from government, telecoms or law is going to take him seriously.

That will require real substantiated evidence to convince anyone.
Click to expand...

But that would mean the cell industry is supressing it.
 
Cius

Cius

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8,347
DerekMain said:
I find it hard to believe that scientists who show the harms of EMF do so for the "fame". What person in their right mind would do that when they know full well that their lives will change for the worse. They will be villified, ridiculed, harassed and threatened. Their funding will dry up and they'll struggle to have any research published. I feel the only reason they would publish this research is out of a principled stand that the information is too important to our health not to be published. They have nothing else to gain by this. On the other hand, scientists who publish research that favours the industry will be rewarded financially very handsomely.

Please show me any research / articles you have of EMF scientists publishing false research for "fame". If any study is funded by the cell industry, I treat it with a massive amount of skepticism. They're not about to publicise anything that will hurt their profits.
Click to expand...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-white/how-and-why-scientists-fu_b_10106104.html

That article describes it fairly well. Please read it.

This also goes into it: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/scott-selling-science/5043620

It boils down to pressure to publish, and journals only wanting to publish sensational stuff. It puts the pressure on the researchers to fudge the numbers to get the result they want. It is very widespread. I have no data to back this but I would guess as much as 50 to 60% of research done on any topic is flawed in some major way due to pressure from industry, or pressure to publish (fame route). Both ultimately tie back to money.

People who blindly accept research studies clearly haven't followed the history of research much. Most get disproven, discarded, or corrected over time. Very few stand the test of time.


As to your request for proof, several people over the course of this thread have read your studies and pointed out the flaws in those studies. Minute sample sizes for one seem to be common. I wonder how many studies were done where a researchers said cell towers cause cancer. They then get cancer figures around 100 cell towers and go from data set to data set until they find that one tower that happened to have a disproportionate amount of cancer deaths. They will ignore all the other data that does not agree with them, gloss over that it was multiple types of unrelated cancers, and publish. This is just how the world works.

The part that amuses me is how you seem to think I am a fool for being trusting, yet your trust in a narrow set of questionable research far eclipses my own. What was that phrase you kept using, head in the sand? I don't think so, you however seem a little gullible to me in your absolute trust of anyone who questions a mainstream institution.

You have already said you don't like GMO, would you care to indicate which of the following you agree and disagree with:
1) Climate change is real and is currently being affected by man made causes
2) Homeopathy doesn't work (Also chiropractice, chinese medicine, acupuncture, etc.)
3) Spanking your children doesn't instil any more discipline in them (and is actually abuse)
4) Vaccines are generally safe and do not cause Autism (or any other toxic responses)
5) GMO's are not toxic and do not cause mutation
6) The 9/11 attacks were carried out by terrorists using planes and the buildings fell because of weakened steel beams
7) Man has landed on the Moon
8) There is no such thing as Electro-Magnetic Hypersensitivity and wifi won't harm you
9) Evolution is real and is the best explanation we have of the origin of the species
10) The Earth is round and so are all the planets and stars
11) Planes give off Con-trails at certain altitudes and temperatures. This is just water vapour.
12) There are no secret societies or wealthy families controlling the Governments or Financial systems of the world.
13) The Holocaust really took place and can be proven with evidence and testimony
14) Mass Shootings in the USA occasionally take place and these are not false flag operations
15) The fluoride in our water is not toxic but is beneficial
16) There is no science behind water divining

If you are interested in my answers to these you can find it over here: https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/the-woo-woo-thread.940429/
 
D

DerekMain

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Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
107
Trompie67 said:
Of course you will! :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:

Debate requires logic & in this instance science. Conspiracy theorists do not work like this. They work from (often erroneous) beliefs & emotion, and even when science proves them wrong they then attack the institution/scientists as being part of your conspiracy.
So round in circles they go.
That does not mean they sound or act "crazy", it means that they operate from emotion rather than logic. As such, they see others as blindly following assumptions whereas they view themselves as the critical thinker, when in fact if they were to really exercise critical thinking instead of emotional responses they would see that they are in fact most often completely wrong.
Click to expand...

So you're saying you have a preconceived idea about me and thus don't need to engage on any of the discussion points - they can be dismissed out of hand. You must "win" a lot of debates that way. That tells me you don't have any logic or science to refute what I say.
 
D

DerekMain

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
107
Cius said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-white/how-and-why-scientists-fu_b_10106104.html

That article describes it fairly well. Please read it.

This also goes into it: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/scott-selling-science/5043620

It boils down to pressure to publish, and journals only wanting to publish sensational stuff. It puts the pressure on the researchers to fudge the numbers to get the result they want. It is very widespread. I have no data to back this but I would guess as much as 50 to 60% of research done on any topic is flawed in some major way due to pressure from industry, or pressure to publish (fame route). Both ultimately tie back to money.

People who blindly accept research studies clearly haven't followed the history of research much. Most get disproven, discarded, or corrected over time. Very few stand the test of time.


As to your request for proof, several people over the course of this thread have read your studies and pointed out the flaws in those studies. Minute sample sizes for one seem to be common. I wonder how many studies were done where a researchers said cell towers cause cancer. They then get cancer figures around 100 cell towers and go from data set to data set until they find that one tower that happened to have a disproportionate amount of cancer deaths. They will ignore all the other data that does not agree with them, gloss over that it was multiple types of unrelated cancers, and publish. This is just how the world works.

The part that amuses me is how you seem to think I am a fool for being trusting, yet your trust in a narrow set of questionable research far eclipses my own. What was that phrase you kept using, head in the sand? I don't think so, you however seem a little gullible to me in your absolute trust of anyone who questions a mainstream institution.

You have already said you don't like GMO, would you care to indicate which of the following you agree and disagree with:
1) Climate change is real and is currently being affected by man made causes
2) Homeopathy doesn't work (Also chiropractice, chinese medicine, acupuncture, etc.)
3) Spanking your children doesn't instil any more discipline in them (and is actually abuse)
4) Vaccines are generally safe and do not cause Autism (or any other toxic responses)
5) GMO's are not toxic and do not cause mutation
6) The 9/11 attacks were carried out by terrorists using planes and the buildings fell because of weakened steel beams
7) Man has landed on the Moon
8) There is no such thing as Electro-Magnetic Hypersensitivity and wifi won't harm you
9) Evolution is real and is the best explanation we have of the origin of the species
10) The Earth is round and so are all the planets and stars
11) Planes give off Con-trails at certain altitudes and temperatures. This is just water vapour.
12) There are no secret societies or wealthy families controlling the Governments or Financial systems of the world.
13) The Holocaust really took place and can be proven with evidence and testimony
14) Mass Shootings in the USA occasionally take place and these are not false flag operations
15) The fluoride in our water is not toxic but is beneficial
16) There is no science behind water divining

If you are interested in my answers to these you can find it over here: https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/the-woo-woo-thread.940429/
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what is said in the first article. Scientists are under pressure to publish so that the universities can continue to receive their grants. I put it to you though that there are not many grants forthcoming for universities whose scientists want the harms of EMF known. On the other hand, companies will be falling over themselves to provide grants to universities for research showing that EMFs are safe. This is why many universities will not provide funding to scientists that rock the boat. I personally know one doctor who was told by UCT to stop doing EMF research because she was showing the harms. That is the kind of power the cell industry has - all due to its funding.

I think this article makes some excellent suggestions on how the situation could be improved. I do believe that they have only slightly touched on the crux of the issue - funding. That is where the trouble starts. Firstly, people with vested interests pay for their scientists and research. Anybody who doesn't tow the line is denied funding for their research. Then we come to the publishing of papers. Many of them are squashed at this stage - they may show absolute proof of whatever but they never see the light of day. If you want to know what the results of some research will be, find out who funded it. Science has become a fraud.

Much of the research conducted by the cell industry cannot be verified. They refuse to release their data for review and simply expect everyone to take their word for it.
That's not science!

Both the articles point to fraud in science, which I don't doubt exists. However, this could be committed by the pro or anti EMF scientists. So how do you know which of these is fraudulent? Or perhaps both are?

Answers to your questions :

1) Climate change is real and is currently being affected by man made causes
True - I do believe there is a cyclical element to it as well
2) Homeopathy doesn't work (Also chiropractice, chinese medicine, acupuncture, etc.)
Skeptical
3) Spanking your children doesn't instil any more discipline in them (and is actually abuse)
Different disciplining for different children. Punishment is sometimes sadistic and abusive.
4) Vaccines are generally safe and do not cause Autism (or any other toxic responses)
Can't generalise - some may cause harm. Warrants more research.
5) GMO's are not toxic and do not cause mutation
Warrants more research.
6) The 9/11 attacks were carried out by terrorists using planes and the buildings fell because of weakened steel beams
Inside job.
7) Man has landed on the Moon
Skeptical
8) There is no such thing as Electro-Magnetic Hypersensitivity and wifi won't harm you
False
9) Evolution is real and is the best explanation we have of the origin of the species
True
10) The Earth is round and so are all the planets and stars
True
11) Planes give off Con-trails at certain altitudes and temperatures. This is just water vapour.
True
12) There are no secret societies or wealthy families controlling the Governments or Financial systems of the world.
False
13) The Holocaust really took place and can be proven with evidence and testimony
Largely true with some embellishment
14) Mass Shootings in the USA occasionally take place and these are not false flag operations
True
15) The fluoride in our water is not toxic but is beneficial
Has benefits and risks
16) There is no science behind water divining
True
 
Last edited:
AlmightyBender

AlmightyBender

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Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
7,249
Ok OP if we follow your logic then surely the people actually working in the cell phone industry and the technicians on the cell masts must surely all look like this due to being exposed way more than the rest of us:
1536586049828.png
You remind me of the "if the aircon is too cold it makes me sick" okes. When I counter to them that if cold makes you sick then the entire population of Norway, Canada and Russia should now be fully dead from sickness I just get a blank look as a response.

C'mon pal apply some critical thinking.
 
D

DerekMain

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
107
AlmightyBender said:
Ok OP if we follow your logic then surely the people actually working in the cell phone industry and the technicians on the cell masts must surely all look like this due to being exposed way more than the rest of us:
View attachment 554623
You remind me of the "if the aircon is too cold it makes me sick" okes. When I counter to them that if cold makes you sick then the entire population of Norway, Canada and Russia should now be fully dead from sickness I just get a blank look as a response.

C'mon pal apply some critical thinking.
Click to expand...


The technicians might not look like this but their grandchildren might due to DNA damage.

People living in Norway, Canada & Russia have adapted to the cold and they are geared for it. You take someone from the Caribbean and put them in Russia in mid-winter with the same clothes as they wore back home and they might well die.
 
Last edited:
AlmightyBender

AlmightyBender

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
7,249
You claimed this has been known for a 50 year period or so. So some of these technicians do have grandchildren now. I would be 100% convinced by what you are saying if you could show some evidence that these children are eligible to join the X-Men now in our time.

*adding some humour but I am sincere. Thing is if that was actually happening these former employees would have class actioned claimed on a global scale by now.
 
T

Trompie67

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
1,424
DerekMain said:
So you're saying you have a preconceived idea about me and thus don't need to engage on any of the discussion points - they can be dismissed out of hand. You must "win" a lot of debates that way. That tells me you don't have any logic or science to refute what I say.
Click to expand...

No preconceived idea. I thought you were pretty reasonable. At first. Misguided, but reasonable.
Then you started on the GMO and big pharma trip & it was evident you are not.
As such, there is no purpose in debating - see my prior posts which adequately explain why one cannot debate with a conspiracy theorist.

Your penultimate sentence clearly shows your stance: "win". There is no "win" in a debate. Debate = educate, but it is impossible to educate someone who's basis of debate is emotion, not logic.
 
Dave

Dave

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Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,500
:unsure:

There appear to be people amongst us who should be on medication and for some reason are not...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
AlmightyBender

AlmightyBender

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
7,249
DerekMain said:
People living in Norway, Canada & Russia have adapted to the cold and they are geared for it. You take someone from the Caribbean and put them in Russia in mid-winter with the same clothes as they wore back home and they might well die.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying dying from cold. I'm saying dying from being sick. Cold does not in any way cause sickness. Anyway it is an analogy of an illogical argument that is similar in structure to your argument about cell towers.
 
F

Frequent visitor

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
2,803
DerekMain said:
I agree with much of what is said in the first article. Scientists are under pressure to publish so that the universities can continue to receive their grants. I put it to you though that there are not many grants forthcoming for universities whose scientists want the harms of EMF known. On the other hand, companies will be falling over themselves to provide grants to universities for research showing that EMFs are safe. This is why many universities will not provide funding to scientists that rock the boat. I personally know one doctor who was told by UCT to stop doing EMF research because she was showing the harms. That is the kind of power the cell industry has - all due to its funding.

I think this article makes some excellent suggestions on how the situation could be improved. I do believe that they have only slightly touched on the crux of the issue - funding. That is where the trouble starts. Firstly, people with vested interests pay for their scientists and research. Anybody who doesn't tow the line is denied funding for their research. Then we come to the publishing of papers. Many of them are squashed at this stage - they may show absolute proof of whatever but they never see the light of day. If you want to know what the results of some research will be, find out who funded it. Science has become a fraud.

Much of the research conducted by the cell industry cannot be verified. They refuse to release their data for review and simply expect everyone to take their word for it.
That's not science!

Both the articles point to fraud in science, which I don't doubt exists. However, this could be committed by the pro or anti EMF scientists. So how do you know which of these is fraudulent? Or perhaps both are?

Answers to your questions :

1) Climate change is real and is currently being affected by man made causes
True - I do believe there is a cyclical element to it as well
2) Homeopathy doesn't work (Also chiropractice, chinese medicine, acupuncture, etc.)
Skeptical
3) Spanking your children doesn't instil any more discipline in them (and is actually abuse)
Different disciplining for different children. Punishment is sometimes sadistic and abusive.
4) Vaccines are generally safe and do not cause Autism (or any other toxic responses)
Can't generalise - some may cause harm. Warrants more research.
5) GMO's are not toxic and do not cause mutation
Warrants more research.
6) The 9/11 attacks were carried out by terrorists using planes and the buildings fell because of weakened steel beams
Inside job.
7) Man has landed on the Moon
Skeptical
8) There is no such thing as Electro-Magnetic Hypersensitivity and wifi won't harm you
False
9) Evolution is real and is the best explanation we have of the origin of the species
True
10) The Earth is round and so are all the planets and stars
True
11) Planes give off Con-trails at certain altitudes and temperatures. This is just water vapour.
True
12) There are no secret societies or wealthy families controlling the Governments or Financial systems of the world.
False
13) The Holocaust really took place and can be proven with evidence and testimony
Largely true with some embellishment
14) Mass Shootings in the USA occasionally take place and these are not false flag operations
True
15) The fluoride in our water is not toxic but is beneficial
Has benefits and risks
16) There is no science behind water divining
True
Click to expand...
Can you distinguish between breeding and mutation?
 
A

access

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
13,703
the idea is to solve the data transfer rate problem. eventually our brains will make the connection between the waves moving through it and what we are doing on the screen. people will be able to communicate through emf, these currently complaining are being thinned out by evolution.

mwhahaha run for your lives!
 
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