[Opinion] Greatest ODI Player: Viv Richards

Hamster

Resident Rodent
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
42,920
Thread title is misleading. Thought we were talking about the greatest :whistling:
 

Wall

Sports Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
30,841
was 70's and 80's cricket that much better? or is it seen with rose tinted glasses?

Yes, the pitches weren't covered and batsman didn't have helmets etc but the professional development that players have now surely makes them better players?
 

Polymathic

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
29,802
I was thinking the other day if you take the greatest players from all the previous generations of cricket players they would get trashed by the current gen players no problem
 

ZCFOutkast

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,950
I was thinking the other day if you take the greatest players from all the previous generations of cricket players they would get trashed by the current gen players no problem
But would present generations - used to just 4 over spells from the best nowadays - survive 15 over spell after 15 over spell from Lawson, Marshall, Treuman, Croft, Thomson, Holding, Garner, Lillee, Barnes, Ambrose, Hadlee etc?
 

Ho3n3r

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
17,058
He was apparently a very explosive batsman for the time, even with those thin bats back then, and the uncovered pitches. Scoring 189* must've been something special back then.

Wouldn't have minded growing up watching him, and the rest of the Windies greats. Unfortunately, I was born way too late.
 

thestaggy

Honorary Master
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
21,147
was 70's and 80's cricket that much better? or is it seen with rose tinted glasses?

Yes, the pitches weren't covered and batsman didn't have helmets etc but the professional development that players have now surely makes them better players?

Well, there were no power plays and pace bowlers were not nearly as neutered as they are now. That has to mean something.
 

WaxLyrical

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
25,353
Remember Graeme Pollock bemused by the fact that players today jog around the field to keep fit.

It was unhead of back in the day. As a batsman you job is to hit the ball, not look for singles.

Chris Gayle has that philosophy.
 

ZCFOutkast

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,950
Remember Graeme Pollock bemused by the fact that players today jog around the field to keep fit.

It was unhead of back in the day. As a batsman you job is to hit the ball, not look for singles.

Chris Gayle has that philosophy.
You're joking. Proof?
 

ZCFOutkast

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,950
Don't have time/resources to google for a GP quote but I swear on my mothers life thats what he said.
Hope it helps.
I'll take your word for it. I've watched old clips of Graeme Pollock play several times, and he had that similar arrogance. It seems to give the players the impression that no hardwork is necessary to be world class. See how it affects Mario Balotelli. It works for some, not for others.
 

MickeyD

RIP
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
139,117
But would present generations - used to just 4 over spells from the best nowadays - survive 15 over spell after 15 over spell from Lawson, Marshall, Treuman, Croft, Thomson, Holding, Garner, Lillee, Barnes, Ambrose, Hadlee etc?

What about Peter Pollock, Mike Proctor, Vince van der Bijl, Garth le Roux, Clive Rice, Neil Adcock, Peter Heine, etc. ???
 

Pegasus

Honorary Master
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
13,973
So, it settled then ..... Viv Richards is the Greatest ODI player. Averaging 47 with strike rate of 90, this in the days of 70s and 80s.

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/846325/still-the-king

He had those averages when good players of his generation were averaging 30 with a strike rate of 60.
So he was way ahead of anyone else.

Thats like someone averaging 70 with a strike rate rate of 150 today.

He never wore a helmet in his life and was the best hooker and puller in the world.
He klapped bowlers like Lillee and Thompson for fun.

Bowlers feared him.
 

ZCFOutkast

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,950
What about Peter Pollock, Mike Proctor, Vince van der Bijl, Garth le Roux, Clive Rice, Neil Adcock, Peter Heine, etc. ???
Not enough sustained brilliance at the top due to circumstances. Even Shane Bond was around long enough to make an indisputable statement. Mike Proctor? Fair enough. You add him onto the list, I wouldn't argue. Decent player's opinion of Adcock mean he's a fair inclusion. I don't know much about the rest. (Sadly you'll know that it's taboo to pay respects to some of these players due to insensitivities about the past so some of will never know much about a lot them. Generally anyting pre-1992 gets no recognition. Maybe then you understand their exclusion intially?)

Guys nowadays wouldn't survive so many long spells at the same high speeds against these former bowlers, but I can still see a Dilshan, AB&Gayle getting hold of them long enough to leave lasting damage. They too would've been corrupted and turned into inferior bowlers by the swift changes from Test to ODI to T20 then back. Steyn is a perfect example of how much harm these formats can be to a brilliant bowler.

There's only a handful of modern players who we can say could've been great in all generations. For me Wasim Akram, Jimmy Anderson, Glenn McGrath aong the bowlers - due to their natural skill and ability to make batsmen look utterly stupid ball after ball. Among the batsmen Sanga, Ponting and Mohammad Yousuf. Kohli looks to have the alround attributes - combines the best of all those three batsmen respectively - efficiency, aggression&pure class but like a Philander, he either hasn't had a career long enough yet or might not. Amla&Sachin lack the necessary aggresion to have survived against some of those brutal fast bowers, while one can't include Mahela if Lara isn't there. Most of the others would've been reduced to a Geoff Boycott. Nothing earth-shattering. A lot of the spinners are like the Tour de France greats - tainted. So you can't really say anyone beyond Shane Warne, while I feel Kumble would've been an even greater spinner if he played in those times.
 

MickeyD

RIP
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
139,117
I don't know much about the rest. (Sadly you'll know that it's taboo to pay respects to some of these players due to insensitivities about the past so some of will never know much about a lot them. Generally anyting pre-1992 gets no recognition. Maybe then you understand their exclusion intially?)

When you remove the blinkers of politics you will respect players (of all races) for their skills and abilities.

We had plenty of brilliant players in the 70s and 80s and the world were deprived from seeing them play.

Most folks worship Basil D'Oliveira but I'll tell that that there were even better players who remained in SA and never got a chance to display their abilities.

So to answer your initial question... my list of bowlers would make life extremely difficult for any batsman and also be able to bowl long spells.
 

MickeyD

RIP
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
139,117
Bowlers fear Gayle&Afridi too. :D

Ever since Ponting retired, is there anyone in cricket today whose wickets are celebrated more than those two?
What about Warner, Amla, Kohli, AB, B McCullum, Kumar, etc????
 
Top