[Opinion] Newlands Stadium should be sold and the funds distributed to clubs

[wetkit]

Yea, Cape Town stadium made a big f-up when built.
The Rugby guys said they will take the stadium, just build us the "losies". Sep Platter said NEVER!!!

Now CCT want the rugby guys to rent the stadium, but they can not garuntee venue dates. So if CCT want to host soccer on the same week-end as rugby, guess who wins.

So sad

 

[ZCFOutkast]

No one has said how much money is made from those boxes/corporate suites?

In the EPL, most of the time they are paid for but empty. IN all they are not such a big portion compared to gate revenue.

 

[porchrat]

Thinking back everyone expected her to be the biggest resistance to stadium expenditure but she meekly committed the city's funds to that project

Wait wasn't construction on that stadium delayed because the city/province had a big fight with national government about building it? I seem to recall that the city wasn't at all happy about building it.

 

[FoXtroT]

No one has said how much money is made from those boxes/corporate suites?

In the EPL, most of the time they are paid for but empty. IN all they are not such a big portion compared to gate revenue.

That sort of information is confidential, I've never seen any Union release their revenue figures. However what I can tell you from the situation in Durban between the Sharks and the city was that the main reason the Sharks refuse to move to Moses Mabida is because of the limited number of corporate suites available compared to Kings Park stadium. They stated that they are the primary revenue earner for the stadium and not ticket sales.

 

[scud]

Wait wasn't construction on that stadium delayed because the city/province had a big fight with national government about building it? I seem to recall that the city wasn't at all happy about building it.

Yup, it was forced on the city. a mate of mine was involved very high up at the time. Apparently Seb visited Cape Town and chose the location based on the mountain, tv , great views etc,

The decision process after that was all for show. Newlands could have hosted the soccer ffs

 

[Stefanmuller]

That sort of information is confidential, I've never seen any Union release their revenue figures. However what I can tell you from the situation in Durban between the Sharks and the city was that the main reason the Sharks refuse to move to Moses Mabida is because of the limited number of corporate suites available compared to Kings Park stadium. They stated that they are the primary revenue earner for the stadium and not ticket sales.

If I'm not mistaken its about R120k per year for a box at Newlands. The tickets for a game is on top of that so if the box hosts 20 people for the day they have to buy 20 tickets.

I am more familiar with cricket boxes (not the cost) and have been invited a few times. For all I still needed a entrance ticket (which was given to me but needed it to get into the stadium). The boxes can easily cater for 40 people and the cost of the catering and booze is substantial and I am sure WP Cricket makes money from that too.

I also imagine that many of the rich business people owning boxes also put money in towards WP Rugby/Cricket by way of donations etc which they are less likely to do if they dont have boxes to entertain clients and watch the game in.

 

[ambo]

I would also wonder what the real market value of Newlands Stadium is. Sure it has massive intrinsic value due to the future revenue opportunity but if rugby is no longer played there then much of that value is lost. Worst case it gets sold for the land value and demolished. I can't believe that land there is that valuable considering how many other properties in that neighborhood could be redeveloped at much lower cost.

 

[MickeyD]

Obviously there's other rugby teams in those two provinces but not at the same competitive&professional level like these soccer clubs in the first division (more equal to the tens of amateur soccer clubs all over there). All things being equal, rugby fans base is tiny in comparison, except those attendances would read the opposite when counting just the turnstiles at the big stadiums. For example Wits vs Swallows at Bidvest or Dobsonville would have a small crowd compared to a 2nd division game in Eldos/Kliptown. So money is a factor too.

Want to back this up with facts (for the WC)?

 

[genetic]

So if CCT want to host soccer on the same week-end as rugby, guess who wins.

The highest bidder.

 

[genetic]

I'm sensing a bit of bias from the OP.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Okay, short answer as stated by WPRU as well, http://wprugby.com/safety-and-security-at-dhl-newlands-rugby-stadium/

Compliance-wise, whilst the Safety Act was promulgated in 2010, the regulations have not yet been promulgated and the stadium is currently compliant.

As per my understand, the only upgrade as required by the regulation is to increase the turnstiles (entry and exit points) at Newlands Stadium. Don't know the exact details.

Also as per the OP:

WESTERN Province Rugby Football Union released a startling statement a week before Christmas, which, predictably — and possibly, deliberately — was largely ignored because most people were already on holiday.

Utter nonsense. Here is the statement made by WPRU:

http://wprugby.com/wp-rugby-statement-181214/

The WPRFU are the owners of the DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium – in turn, the clubs are the stakeholders and owners of the Union – and a decision to remain at DHL Newlands was carried by the clubs on Wednesday, 17 December 2014, unanimously and without abstention.

The decision to NOT further consider relocating to the Cape Town Stadium was based on a number of factors, the main considerations being the following:

(1) The WPRFU owns Newlands Rugby Stadium – including the ground it is built on – outright and is thereby in complete control of its own destiny. Any position for the WPRFU at the Cape Town Stadium will be as a tenant or a minority shareholder in an operating entity as the City has made it very clear the ownership will always remain that of the City.
(2) Whilst selling Newlands Rugby Stadium and moving to the Cape Town Stadium would result in a significant one-off cash injection for the WPRFU, it would be financially very difficult to ever own, purchase or build another stadium in the future, in all likelihood relegating Western Province to a tenant in perpetuity.
(3) There is a model whereby the existing Newlands Rugby Stadium and surrounding properties owned by the WPRFU can be redeveloped to create an additional income stream for the Union and to enhance the area and nearby sporting stadia/facilities.
(4) Spectator numbers at sporting events globally are under threat on an annual basis and we are concerned about the effect on the atmosphere in catering to smaller crowds in a 55,000-seater stadium.
(5) Various other operational and commercial issues were also considered, including:

5.1 – The operating costs pertaining to events at Newlands Rugby Stadium are significantly lower than those at the Cape Town Stadium.
5.2 – The capital replacement costs at Newlands Rugby Stadium are significantly lower than those at the Cape Town Stadium.
5.3 – Co-ordination of events at the Cape Town Stadium will be more difficult – especially in light that certain major entertainment events (such as concerts) are scheduled 12 to 18 months in advance, whereas the WPRFU would finalise its Super Rugby/Currie Cup schedules only by October of the previous year.

MORE: Safety and security at DHL Newlands Rugby Stadium!

I agree with considerations 1-5. This statement was made on Wednesday, 17 December 2014.

Media articles related to the statement:

Dec 17, 2014 - WP say no to CT Stadium - Eyewitness News
Dec 18, 2014 - Rugby365 | No CT Stadium move for WP
Dec 18, 2014 - WP turn down stadium move | Sport24
Dec 18, 2014 - WP Rugby staying put - SA Rugby Magazine
Dec 19, 2014 - Stadium's future 'not in hands of Cape rugby bosses' | National
Dec 19, 2014 - WP decides to stay at Newlands - Times LIVE
Dec 19, 2014 - WP says no to Cape Town Stadium - IOL Rugby | IOL.co.za
And more...

In my opinion, the opinionated article must be largely ignored.

 

[Arthur]

The problems really begin when government applies pressure to get its way. They can raise taxes on the existing Newlands grounds - just as Joburg threatened Wanderers years ago - to pressure them into moving to the new stadium. It starts with rezoning.

Central government is hellbent on dismantling what they see as vestiges of white elitism, and Newlands is a target. And of course they'd love to develop sub-economic housing in the heart of white suburbia, all in the name of undoing apartheid.

 

[FoXtroT]

The problems really begin when government applies pressure to get its way. They can raise taxes on the existing Newlands grounds - just as Joburg threatened Wanderers years ago - to pressure them into moving to the new stadium. It starts with rezoning.

Central government is hellbent on dismantling what they see as vestiges of white elitism, and Newlands is a target. And of course they'd love to develop sub-economic housing in the heart of white suburbia, all in the name of undoing apartheid.

They are doing just that to the Sharks. Although Kings Park the stadium is, as I understand it, owned by the Sharks however the land is leased from the municipality. During the last run of negotiations over the whole issue and the Sharks refusing to move, the city stated that when the lease was up they would not be renewing it; and I don't think its very long until that happens.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Want to back this up with facts (for the WC)?

Hard to provide those facts, but I can't see how that can be up for dispute, even in the WC. Keegan Dolly/Franklin cayle is probably more well known than Schalk Burger & Duane Vermeulen combined.

Maybe if you'd said EC. They don't have a top soccer side or any soccer to speak of really. Rugby&Cricket dominate so those two can be even split with soccer. Being from there I think that can only be questionable there more than the WC.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Central government is hellbent on dismantling what they see as vestiges of white elitism, and Newlands is a target. And of course they'd love to develop sub-economic housing in the heart of white suburbia, all in the name of undoing apartheid.

DA+Hellen Zille are in charge of the WC boet, and CT is part of WC so I wouldn't argue from that angle if I were you.

They are doing just that to the Sharks. Although Kings Park the stadium is, as I understand it, owned by the Sharks however the land is leased from the municipality. During the last run of negotiations over the whole issue and the Sharks refusing to move, the city stated that when the lease was up they would not be renewing it; and I don't think its very long until that happens.

One of the main reasons why I'm surprised at the WPRFU's decision is that they are fully aware that the City will take the fight to them. While you okes over there have very deep pockets, I'm not sure if those cents expended on these inevitably losing battles won't in the long run far outweight those lost in simply moving to CT statium.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

In my opinion, the opinionated article must be largely ignored.

Thanks for the links and the WPRFU statement ... but those are still before Christmas and were likely ignored as people were on holiday, as I can assure you MyBB Rugby Forum would've long dealt with the issue. So the author intimating that it was likely ignored has sound basis since we need not look too far.

I'd like to present a completely different take on this as well as why the move should have happened.

The wheels are turning ... irreversibly and they are gathering momentum very fast. There are certain considerations which impact both the economic outlook and playing prospects - hence interest&attendance - in the game.

Rule/laws were passed governing the sport. We can already see the older generation of rugby stars securing their futures overseas, which is understandable since it's the backend of their careers. However some of the younger stars who should be pushing for playing spots in the Springboks or Super Rugby sides have also left (Francois Steyn etc). As things stand after the 2015 RWC I expect some of the other young&established players to leave - Etzebeth, Le Roux, Coetzee etc, along with those not so old seasoned campaigners (Bismarck etc).

What this means is some of the average junior players from Varsity or Currie Cup side not exceptional enough for Super Rugby & the Boks, will go straight overseas France, England&Australia to ply their trade. Even some of those exceptional youngsters who back themselves will also leave sooner rather than later if they feel "aggrieved" even the slightest by the system at any point, however minor the case might be.

No stars, no attraction for fans, SANZAR reducing the Super Rugby slots for SA - with more going to Argentina, sponsors pull out, TV deals shrink significantly, and team revenues plus players salaries drop sharply(not forgetting of course other socio-political&economic factors to add to that which will mean a poorer country than the one we see today). In the end there's very little energy going into schools rugby, never mind Varsity&Currie Cup purely because parents and their kids don't consider it to be a worthwhile career in SA anymore. For obvious reason I'm talking about the whiteys here guys no racism inferred. (It will take a very long time after that for the African players to get the game back to where it should be - sponsors, tv revenue etc, simply because the Boks won't be anywhere near former glory, but it will come right in the end,only too late for a lot of the whites to still have an active professional interest in the game locally.)

From where I'm standing, this can be a reality in the next 10 years. What the WPRU can sell Newlands for, less the costs at CT stadium over that period, is certainly much higher than what they'll get for it 10 years from now, assuming it will even be worth selling profitably then.

Please remember this post in January 2025 guys, those of you further away from kicking the bucket. I can't see things happening any other way.

 

[MickeyD]

Hard to provide those facts, but I can't see how that can be up for dispute, even in the WC. Keegan Dolly/Franklin cayle is probably more well known than Schalk Burger & Duane Vermeulen combined.

Look deeper...

 

[Arthur]

DA+Hellen Zille are in charge of the WC boet, and CT is part of WC so I wouldn't argue from that angle if I were you.

You forget where the provinces get their money from. And how decisions are driven down from on high. There's the paper constitution and statute, and then there's the realpolitik of power.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Thanks for the links and the WPRFU statement ... but those are still before Christmas and were likely ignored as people were on holiday, as I can assure you MyBB Rugby Forum would've long dealt with the issue. So the author intimating that it was likely ignored has sound basis since we need not look too far.

I'd like to present a completely different take on this as well as why the move should have happened.

...

From where I'm standing, this can be a reality in the next 10 years. What the WPRU can sell Newlands for, less the costs at CT stadium over that period, is certainly much higher than what they'll get for it 10 years from now, assuming it will even be worth selling profitably then.

Please remember this post in January 2025 guys, those of you further away from kicking the bucket. I can't see things happening any other way.

Ignored by which people exactly, the supporters? All the key decision-makers was involved, including the WPRU league clubs.

It was the Green Point Ratepayers Association chairman Luke Steven which propagated the Cape Town Stadium sustainability and urged the city to move the WPRU to Cape Town Stadium as anchor tenant, than to renovate the stadium into a commercial space.

Since 2011, WPRU had been pushed to move to Green Point, every year the city receives a clear NO and all the sudden this statement is startling... “predictably — and possibly, deliberately”.

Since the clubs made their decision on the move, it was on the agenda and the statement thereon expected. You didn’t challenge the 5 considerations made by WPRU, but rather provider your own take on this matter, which is a mere opinion, and you will also need to remember your post in January 2025.

Tank Lanning put it best:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/TankLanning/The-Cape-Town-Stadium-leaks-20130214

The Cape Town Stadium leaks!

So this is awkward. Having been a very public protagonist of Western Province Rugby Union moving to the Cape Town stadium, I am now not nearly as confident ...

So excited was I about attending the pre-season game between the Stormers and Boland at the "new" stadium, that I chose the game over a bachelor party of a good mate at my favourite watering hole in Cape Town ...

And it wasn't because of the rugby on offer ...

But my experience can best described by that fellow in A Fish Called Wanda – “Disappointed!”

Not being so new anymore, the roof of the stadium now leaks, and it being a strange summer’s day in Cape Town, the rain was bucketing down. This combination meant that the entire press seating area, which is out in the open in the main stand, was under water.

Now I know most of you think that all us media types do is complain while being paid to watch rugby for free in the best seats while sipping on a cold one and eating biltong … But we do actually do a little work, and that involves a computer plugged into a power socket - two things that do not go particularly well with water.

With much of the seating out in the open, and the roof in need of some pollyfiller, I am afraid the Cape Town Stadium is indeed a “fair-weather stadium”. Not ideal for blustery Cape winters!

Also, unless you know the area particularly well, and are prepared to circumvent the city, there is only one road into the stadium - a road that also happens to be the only road into the city’s biggest shopping centre and tourist attraction. Even with only a few thousand of us going to the game, that road took proper strain, meaning plenty time sitting in traffic.

Use public transport I hear you say … Go in early and have lunch at the Waterfront I hear you say … All good and well when it’s a big event held every four years, but perhaps off-putting when doing it every second week during the winter.

Throw in the poor field condition (that was new and disappointing) and the fact that you sit a long way from the field if you want to watch from higher up and stay out the rain, and I am starting to see some reason in WPRU stalling on the move.

These issues over and above the fact that Newlands is paid for and that the new stadium would not be able to accommodate the commercially vital suite holders, as explained yet again by union president Thelo Wakefield when asked the question at the DHL sponsorship extension announcement yesterday.

Which begs the other obvious question: What would sponsors DHL get out of a move?

I am afraid both Durban and Cape Town were royally screwed when bending over so quickly for Mr Blatter and his FIFA henchman and are now paying the price.

But with SARU now taking back the ownership Springbok Test matches, with a view to staging the Cape Town matches at the Cape Town Stadium instead of Newlands from 2014, I hope a few of them read this column before making the final call!

Tank is a former Western Province tighthead prop who now heads up Tankman Media, and sprouts forth on all things rugby on the Front Row Grunt …

Why must WPRU give up their property in return to relegate to a minority shareholder position endangering their sponsors, investors etc? As Liz McGregor stated, "As a rugby fan, moving to Cape Town Stadium seemed to me to be a no-brainer."

 

[ZCFOutkast]

You forget where the provinces get their money from. And how decisions are driven down from on high. There's the paper constitution and statute, and then there's the realpolitik of power.

A couple of years ago one of the episodes on Carte Blanche revealed how the city's rates were making it impossible for a lot of the residents of one or two particular surburbs in CT.

The value of their properties had been revalued to unbelievably high levels in a short space of time, and the majority (as you know how Indian families live) were owned by the elderly, mostly retired pensioners with no other income. Naturally they would've been forced to sell to the Stuarts and the Swarts. I never did a follow up on that episode, but it goes to show the city can push things and still be within the limitations of the Constitution.

Besides, considering "central government" paid over the odds to use that particular stadium briefly for a celebration,I'd say the provinces have some muscle don't you think?