Opinions on buying 2002 Polo Classic for R30000?

[RonSwanson]

Thanks for the detail on the insurance, it does seem I could get a low deal too if your son can.

I am still wondering if this particular car is consuming more fuel than it should. My friend reckons she can get 400-500 km out of a tank, which is about 10km/l (urban) which doesn't seem great and worse than might be expected (and as said, she doesn't seem to be a particularly uneconomical driver). I know I seem to be harping on a bit about the fuel but it is one of my key considerations, as I will be on a pretty low salary and a 40 km round trip daily commute.

I still reckon it is a good buy for R30k as people here have suggested. However If my dad is willing to put a little more in to the initial outlay I would still be tempted to go for something a little more fuel efficient but still hopefully solid (e.g. Yaris or Jazz). I am aware this is more in the R60k bracket though so it is a big difference in cost.

It's a 45l tank, and I think that the manufacturer quotes 7.2l/100km, which theoretically gives you 625 km. But we all know that no-one drives until empty, and manufacturers conduct their testing at 02H00 in the morning, at the coast and use extra low rolling resistance tyres, basically near Lab type conditions, so 500 km is more likely. Even my own 2005 Polo's computer states around 520 Km range when filled up.

If you do the sums on the cost of CAPEX (including interest), basically paying double for, say 1 litre per 100 km less consumption (which you may only get if you are lucky) you may want to reconsider.

Assumptions:
9600 kms per year (40kms per day)
R15.55 per litre
20% Interest rate

Cost of capital:
30000, so monthly repayment is R 1229 pm, R44,244 total
60000, so monthly repayment is R 2344 pm, R84,384 total

Fuel consumption costs:
7.2l/100km = 691.2 l = roughly R11,439.36, factoring in a 6% annual increase
6.2l/100km = 595.2l = roughly R9,850.73, factoring in a 6% annual increase

Total costs (car payment and fuel) after 3 years:
R55,737.36 vs R94,234.72. It's a huge difference, plus there will be higher insurance premiums...

Then again, if the cost of capital is someone else's problem, your sums may differ from mine. I just did it to illustrate that better fuel consumption, over 3 years, amounts to roughly R1,588.63 less, and I am willing to bet that the increased insurance premiums on a R60,000 vs R30,000 car will even it out.

 

[lukefrom zim]

It's a 45l tank, and I think that the manufacturer quotes 7.2l/100km, which theoretically gives you 625 km. But we all know that no-one drives until empty, and manufacturers conduct their testing at 02H00 in the morning, at the coast and use extra low rolling resistance tyres, basically near Lab type conditions, so 500 km is more likely. Even my own 2005 Polo's computer states around 520 Km range when filled up.

If you do the sums on the cost of CAPEX (including interest), basically paying double for, say 1 litre per 100 km less consumption (which you may only get if you are lucky) you may want to reconsider.

Assumptions:
9600 kms per year (40kms per day)
R15.55 per litre
20% Interest rate

Cost of capital:
30000, so monthly repayment is R 1229 pm, R44,244 total
60000, so monthly repayment is R 2344 pm, R84,384 total

Fuel consumption costs:
7.2l/100km = 691.2 l = roughly R11,439.36, factoring in a 6% annual increase
6.2l/100km = 595.2l = roughly R9,850.73, factoring in a 6% annual increase

Total costs (car payment and fuel) after 3 years:
R55,737.36 vs R94,234.72. It's a huge difference, plus there will be higher insurance premiums...

Then again, if the cost of capital is someone else's problem, your sums may differ from mine. I just did it to illustrate that better fuel consumption, over 3 years, amounts to roughly R1,588.63 less, and I am willing to bet that the increased insurance premiums on a R60,000 vs R30,000 car will even it out.

Thanks for the great analysis and logic. Certainly argues in favour of a cheaper thirstier car when paying back the purchase cost. Obviously the exact way my family would help me with the cost of initial purchase is something to consider as you say, but definitely helps me see the value of not fixating on fuel costs especially when insurance is thrown in.

 

[lukefrom zim]

Bought the car and regretted in retrospect . No blame or resentment towards anyone here, guess I just got unlucky and/or the car wasn't as solid and well maintained as I was led to believe.

Over the course of 12 000 km with the car, I've had to fix CV joints, one rear wheel bearing, replace the water pump after it started leaking coolant heavily, replace cam seal and tappet cover after a heavy oil leak started, replace the timing belt tensioner and there is still an undiagnosed issue where the car stalls out when at a quarter tank (auto electrician changed the fuel gauge, cleaned the throttle body and replaced a fuel breather pipe but did not in fact solve the problem). The problem does not crop up at all as long as you don't let the tank run down to a quarter, but I'd still like to know what the cause is. Sadly it's cost me around R15k in repairs, including a major service.

The car had no leaks when I bought it so I guess I was unlucky on that front. I'd been told by the old owners that the stalling on a quarter tank was because the fuel gauge was inaccurate but that does not seem to be correct.

Hoping to get it off my hands as soon as I can before I have to fix anything else but also needing to save up a bit for an upgrade in the R60k region. Ideally looking at a Jazz, Figo/Fiesta, i10/i20 or non-Tazz Toyota. I'm aiming to get R20-25k when I do get round to selling the Polo but perhaps I'm being a bit optimistic.

 

[unobeat]

Bought the car and regretted in retrospect . No blame or resentment towards anyone here, guess I just got unlucky and/or the car wasn't as solid and well maintained as I was led to believe.

Over the course of 12 000 km with the car, I've had to fix CV joints, one rear wheel bearing, replace the water pump after it started leaking coolant heavily, replace cam seal and tappet cover after a heavy oil leak started, replace the timing belt tensioner and there is still an undiagnosed issue where the car stalls out when at a quarter tank (auto electrician changed the fuel gauge, cleaned the throttle body and replaced a fuel breather pipe but did not in fact solve the problem). The problem does not crop up at all as long as you don't let the tank run down to a quarter, but I'd still like to know what the cause is. Sadly it's cost me around R15k in repairs, including a major service.

The car had no leaks when I bought it so I guess I was unlucky on that front. I'd been told by the old owners that the stalling on a quarter tank was because the fuel gauge was inaccurate but that does not seem to be correct.

Hoping to get it off my hands as soon as I can before I have to fix anything else but also needing to save up a bit for an upgrade in the R60k region. Ideally looking at a Jazz, Figo/Fiesta, i10/i20 or non-Tazz Toyota. I'm aiming to get R20-25k when I do get round to selling the Polo but perhaps I'm being a bit optimistic.

Its unfortunate that you had to spend about 15k in repairs in those short kilometers driven. The car though is over 15 years old, even though the previous owner can say that it has been maintained properly without fail, those maintenance items you did hsve to happen at some point of a car that is that old.
Years ago we we at home were given a 1.6 Polo Playa which we drove from 100 000-300 000km and it didn't give much issues.
1. Car was maintained by VW doing services as per the schedule of the manual.
2. Did 1 set of tyres and battery.
3. Only issue we had was continuous struggle with doors not opening during winter.
4. Car spend most 95%of its life driving on highway and we averaged 750km per tank everytime. Loved that car and the motor responded well.

From the list of cars you have listed to upgrade to, i have heard good things about Jazz 1.5 especially and I10/ i20 being solid with minimal issues to keep them on the road.

 

[Pineapple Smurf]

Nice thing about those old Polos is the headlights are super difficult to pull off

 

[ronz91]

Its unfortunate that you had to spend about 15k in repairs in those short kilometers driven. The car though is over 15 years old, even though the previous owner can say that it has been maintained properly without fail, those maintenance items you did hsve to happen at some point of a car that is that old.
Years ago we we at home were given a 1.6 Polo Playa which we drove from 100 000-300 000km and it didn't give much issues.
1. Car was maintained by VW doing services as per the schedule of the manual.
2. Did 1 set of tyres and battery.
3. Only issue we had was continuous struggle with doors not opening during winter.
4. Car spend most 95%of its life driving on highway and we averaged 750km per tank everytime. Loved that car and the motor responded well.

From the list of cars you have listed to upgrade to, i have heard good things about Jazz 1.5 especially and I10/ i20 being solid with minimal issues to keep them on the road.

one set of tyres over 200 000km?

 

[lukefrom zim]

Its unfortunate that you had to spend about 15k in repairs in those short kilometers driven. The car though is over 15 years old, even though the previous owner can say that it has been maintained properly without fail, those maintenance items you did hsve to happen at some point of a car that is that old.
Years ago we we at home were given a 1.6 Polo Playa which we drove from 100 000-300 000km and it didn't give much issues.
1. Car was maintained by VW doing services as per the schedule of the manual.
2. Did 1 set of tyres and battery.
3. Only issue we had was continuous struggle with doors not opening during winter.
4. Car spend most 95%of its life driving on highway and we averaged 750km per tank everytime. Loved that car and the motor responded well.

From the list of cars you have listed to upgrade to, i have heard good things about Jazz 1.5 especially and I10/ i20 being solid with minimal issues to keep them on the road.

Yeah I have heard quite a lot of stories of Classics/Playas going strong to pretty high mileage. Currently on 197 000 km with mine. Guess I was unlucky that so many of the maintenance parts went in the short time I've had the car.

Still sounds like your Playa was a bit more solid and/or well taken care of. I suspect my Polo might not have been as well looked after by the previous previous owners. There is a fair bit of blow-by on the engine now which is not encouraging. It may be why my fuel consumption isn't as good as yours even though I know from other cars I drive pretty frugally. Funnily the consumption doesn't seem to change much with highway driving and I generally get just over 8l/100 km whether on the open road or driving around Cape Town (granted my work commute is 70% motorway). For daily driving it's not bad but I do wish it went down a bit on longer trips.

It's recently started leaking a little oil again so I fear another repair bill could be heading my way soon

 

[lukefrom zim]

Nice thing about those old Polos is the headlights are super difficult to pull off

I'll bear that in mind as a small comfort amidst all the repair bills

 

[unobeat]

Yeah I have heard quite a lot of stories of Classics/Playas going strong to pretty high mileage. Currently on 197 000 km with mine. Guess I was unlucky that so many of the maintenance parts went in the short time I've had the car.

Still sounds like your Playa was a bit more solid and/or well taken care of. I suspect my Polo might not have been as well looked after by the previous previous owners. There is a fair bit of blow-by on the engine now which is not encouraging. It may be why my fuel consumption isn't as good as yours even though I know from other cars I drive pretty frugally. Funnily the consumption doesn't seem to change much with highway driving and I generally get just over 8l/100 km whether on the open road or driving around Cape Town (granted my work commute is 70% motorway). For daily driving it's not bad but I do wish it went down a bit on longer trips.

It's recently started leaking a little oil again so I fear another repair bill could be heading my way soon

It sounds like you might have bought a lemon and it would give you a peace of mind to get rid of it Asap and find something else.

 

[unobeat]

one set of tyres over 200 000km?

No no
Obviously the set on the car already lasted a good kilometers and then we had to do another set till 300 000km.

 

[lukefrom zim]

It sounds like you might have bought a lemon and it would give you a peace of mind to get rid of it Asap and find something else.

That's the plan...just trying to build up save savings and hoping the car won't cost too much to keep in passable condition while I do.

The Jazz is probably my ideal replacement as you recommended. Just aware that some people say servicing and parts is likely to be more expensive than some alternatives.

 

[RonSwanson]

Yeah I have heard quite a lot of stories of Classics/Playas going strong to pretty high mileage. Currently on 197 000 km with mine. Guess I was unlucky that so many of the maintenance parts went in the short time I've had the car.

Still sounds like your Playa was a bit more solid and/or well taken care of. I suspect my Polo might not have been as well looked after by the previous previous owners. There is a fair bit of blow-by on the engine now which is not encouraging. It may be why my fuel consumption isn't as good as yours even though I know from other cars I drive pretty frugally. Funnily the consumption doesn't seem to change much with highway driving and I generally get just over 8l/100 km whether on the open road or driving around Cape Town (granted my work commute is 70% motorway). For daily driving it's not bad but I do wish it went down a bit on longer trips.

It's recently started leaking a little oil again so I fear another repair bill could be heading my way soon

Thank you for providing the feedback, it's valuable for all. It's true that a high-mileage vehicle will require far more maintenance than a lower mileage one.

I am still not sure that it was a bad decision though, or even a regrettable one. The reason being that the very same problems, repairs and expenses that you incurred, could have also happened with a pricier vehicle.

The benefit today, is that:
1. There are a whole lot of components that you can be assured of (if correctly installed) have a reasonable warranty and peace of mind;
2. You have saved a lot in finance costs from the start, as well as insurance costs. A lot, please do the calculations.
3. You have gained valuable (shall we say priceless) experience, and even more important, knowledge on owning a car and the maintenance required;
4. You could probably sell the car today, right now, for the same price that you bought it for. Very few of us can claim that today with their current vehicle.

I think that you actually did very well, considering the money that you spent, what you gained, and your current asset value.

 

[TheChamp]

That's the plan...just trying to build up save savings and hoping the car won't cost too much to keep in passable condition while I do.

The Jazz is probably my ideal replacement as you recommended. Just aware that some people say servicing and parts is likely to be more expensive than some alternatives.

Yes, parts are expensive but once they are in it never breaks, the best thing is to get one with service history, no matter how high the mileage is as long as it was serviced.

 

[lukefrom zim]

Thank you for providing the feedback, it's valuable for all. It's true that a high-mileage vehicle will require far more maintenance than a lower mileage one.

I am still not sure that it was a bad decision though, or even a regrettable one. The reason being that the very same problems, repairs and expenses that you incurred, could have also happened with a pricier vehicle.

The benefit today, is that:
1. There are a whole lot of components that you can be assured of (if correctly installed) have a reasonable warranty and peace of mind;
2. You have saved a lot in finance costs from the start, as well as insurance costs. A lot, please do the calculations.
3. You have gained valuable (shall we say priceless) experience, and even more important, knowledge on owning a car and the maintenance required;
4. You could probably sell the car today, right now, for the same price that you bought it for. Very few of us can claim that today with their current vehicle.

I think that you actually did very well, considering the money that you spent, what you gained, and your current asset value.

Thanks you make some great points and it does make me feel a little better about the situation.

Certainly true that it would have been more painful to spend that much on repairs on a more expensive car to begin with. And for what went wrong it probably has been one of the cheaper models to fix.

Benefit #3 is certainly something I've experienced as all the problems have lead me to do a lot of research on the various maintenance issues which can crop up .

The only point that might not quite hold true #4 as I don't really think I'll be able to get R28 500 for the car (what I paid for it in the end), just based on comparing with other Classics/Playas in the market and considering the condition mine is in. But even if i get R20 000 I agree that's a pretty small loss compared to what one might lose on a newer vehicle purchase.

Cheers for the good perspective and kind comments.

 

[RonSwanson]

Thanks you make some great points and it does make me feel a little better about the situation.

Certainly true that it would have been more painful to spend that much on repairs on a more expensive car to begin with. And for what went wrong it probably has been one of the cheaper models to fix.

Benefit #3 is certainly something I've experienced as all the problems have lead me to do a lot of research on the various maintenance issues which can crop up .

The only point that might not quite hold true #4 as I don't really think I'll be able to get R28 500 for the car (what I paid for it in the end), just based on comparing with other Classics/Playas in the market and considering the condition mine is in. But even if i get R20 000 I agree that's a pretty small loss compared to what one might lose on a newer vehicle purchase.

Cheers for the good perspective and kind comments.

Cars under 30k are plentiful in CT? Rustfree? Send me a PM with some photos to verify.

 

[unobeat]

That's the plan...just trying to build up save savings and hoping the car won't cost too much to keep in passable condition while I do.

The Jazz is probably my ideal replacement as you recommended. Just aware that some people say servicing and parts is likely to be more expensive than some alternatives.

Yep some service items might be expensive but they last.
For example they use those iridium spark plugs which are good for 80 000km.

Some good info here:

Honda Jazz - CARforums.co.za

 

[Gozzy]

Thanks for the detail on the insurance, it does seem I could get a low deal too if your son can.

I am still wondering if this particular car is consuming more fuel than it should. My friend reckons she can get 400-500 km out of a tank, which is about 10km/l (urban) which doesn't seem great and worse than might be expected (and as said, she doesn't seem to be a particularly uneconomical driver). I know I seem to be harping on a bit about the fuel but it is one of my key considerations, as I will be on a pretty low salary and a 40 km round trip daily commute.

I still reckon it is a good buy for R30k as people here have suggested. However If my dad is willing to put a little more in to the initial outlay I would still be tempted to go for something a little more fuel efficient but still hopefully solid (e.g. Yaris or Jazz). I am aware this is more in the R60k bracket though so it is a big difference in cost.

Have a 1.4 DSI Jazz as a spare car for when the fam/friends visit from JHB, barely drive it nowadays will probably sell it eventually, I can comment on how bullet proof they are, has 199k km on the clock now, apart from the aircon (still broken cant find a spare yet) and driver winder winder (now fixed) that stopped working, but never left me stranded, always started no problem whether its hot or freezing cold, certainly a good choice in my book if utmost reliability is of concern.

That said also had a 2005 2 door VW Polo Diesel, same story really never left me stranded, so also a good choice if all is maintained especially the cam belt, as they are interference engines, that said make sure they are well maintained and you shouldnt have any problems, sold it 2 years ago at 250k on the clock to my brother as he wanted to turn it into a project car, even after some mods (launch control, racing clutch, mapping) the car was still bullet proof, he recently sold the vehicle for R90k with 270k on the clock and it was still going strong.

 

[123Eish]

I have a Mk3 Golf as my daily. 1998 model. It's on 260k km now. I got it on 160k.

I have had the car for 10 years and during my ownership have done most of what you have done except the fuel issue.

These cars cost literally nothing to run in today's money. Find a good back yard mechanic to take care of it. Shop around for spares when something breaks. Service it once a year. Keep some cash for when you need repairs. You will have a reliable car.

What you have gone through is normal for an older model, high mileage car.

 

[lukefrom zim]

I have a Mk3 Golf as my daily. 1998 model. It's on 260k km now. I got it on 160k.

I have had the car for 10 years and during my ownership have done most of what you have done except the fuel issue.

These cars cost literally nothing to run in today's money. Find a good back yard mechanic to take care of it. Shop around for spares when something breaks. Service it once a year. Keep some cash for when you need repairs. You will have a reliable car.

What you have gone through is normal for an older model, high mileage car.

I get you...I guess I was unfortunate that they all needing replacing just around the time I started driving the car. Nevertheless I do feel the engine on mine is a little knackered. I've been told the blow-by is a little excessive. I think also a lot of the rubber hoses and seals are rotting, which is probably why it's started leaking oil again so soon after I got it fixed. It would also be nice if I could know what's causing the car to cut out when fuel starts getting lower. I would have suspected the fuel pump but that was replaced soon before I bought the car. It used to happen only at below a 1/4 tank, but a couple months back it happened around a 1/3 tank. I never let it go below 1/3 now but it's a little disconcerting now knowing what the issue is or whether it could start cutting out at say 1/2 a tank one day.

Anyway I will be holding on to it for at least the near future and hoping I won't need to make too many more visits to the mechanic. The servicing is at least quite cheap as you say.