P&G Challenges Men to Shave Their ‘Toxic Masculinity’ in Gillette Ad

garp

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You know, I have no problem with the concept that men should behave responsibly and not like misogynist pigs. I'm also all for equal opportunity, treating everyone decently, respecting people's individual choices when it comes to their sexuality, gender, race, whatever (provided they're not imposing it on others and making my free choice of whatever pronouns I see fit to use in my speech illegal).

But I take issue with three things:

1. The implication that we're ALL so far gone as pale males that we all need to be constantly reminded even by the company that makes our toiletry products, FFS. Since when did we become responsible for every act performed by inappropriate/boorish/drunken/perverts/bullies we've probably never met? Why must I be lumped together with some condescending old misogynistic twat in a boardroom merely because I am male and pale?

2. They've completely confused normal masculinity with toxic masculinity. Boys wrestle, guys like to barbecue, occasionally drink beer and many (not all) are attracted to good looking women - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. Just because 0.001% cross the line into toxic behaviour is no reason to throw all conception of masculinity out the window and chop the balls off the other 99.999%. If stereotypical masculine behaviour is bad "just because", then what makes stereotypical femininity any better?

3. The obsessive need to punt these themes incessantly in absolutely everything. We get it, okay. We don't need EVERY SINGLE show, movie or advert to have some kind of moral agenda with a female black lesbian actress shoehorned into every leading role just to make a point, with sub-themes about climate change or oppression or "evil" capitalism. It is utterly exhausting and ultimately boring us to tears and it will be the death of Hollywood - there is a reason why the one or two rare movies every year that are just about being good, realistic stories with no agenda are such big hits.
 

DMNknight

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Well I played in the mud with cars, climbed trees, rode bikes in the veld, caught snakes..... I am sure many girls did. And when my younger brother got physically stronger - I used to beat him with words.

And I played with Sindy doll too. (old version of Barbie - but much prettier)
That's the thing, women don't see the bruises caused by their words. That in this day and age of Information Technology, where social media is king, women are now expressing a power they've never had to control before, because it could never be as widespread as it is today.
 
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That's the thing, women don't see the bruises caused by their words. That in this day and age of Information Technology, where social media is king, women are now expressing a power they've never had to control before, because it could never be as widespread as it is today.
If you really want to see toxic femininity, watch how women bully each other on social media with reputation sabotage/gossip, especially if they're school-age.
 

Lucas Buck

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Toxic femininity.
I'd rather watch that overly preachy Gillette ad again than listen to the horrible text to speech voice-over in this ad. Youtube should only allow text to speech when the technology improves to such an extent that the voices sound natural.
 
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KT-B

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That's the thing, women don't see the bruises caused by their words. That in this day and age of Information Technology, where social media is king, women are now expressing a power they've never had to control before, because it could never be as widespread as it is today.
No - anyone who says that they don't know the damage words can do - is either delusional or lying. We have all been hurt by words - even when we were very little. I think our mothers and fathers do it the most - and then only our friends. Not all are intentional though. Many things are said thoughtlessly. I never said anything mean - but I knew words he didn't understand and it drove him mad when I used them. He did not like that he was the little brother and I got to do things first.

We all have means streaks.
 

smi

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I'd rather watch that overly preachy Gillette ad again than listen to the horrible text to speech voice-over in this ad. Youtube should only allow text to speech if the technology improves to such an extent that the voices sound natural.
Agreed, it was hard to finish
 

KT-B

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Women assume the words they use against each other have as little effect on men, as they do each other.
No I disagree. They may be thoughtless when they use them but I doubt that. But if a man is overly sensitive at the time - he can read things into her words that are not there. Just as she can do to his.

To me words are very important. It can be the difference between the truth and a lie.
 

KT-B

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Toxic femininity.
Women do all this. Annoying as the voice is - it is true. I guess that as a species - humans have a lot of work to do.

I still don't think it is the place of a company, that depends on sales and brand loyalty, to tell people how they should be behaving. Show the behaviour you want - without preaching. Show the positive side of men without saying that it is the positive side. And likewise, show how women should act without saying anything.
 
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Ah, yes. When they embrace victimhood it's because they're snowflakes. When the right and "reasonable balanced centrists" (lol) do it, it's because they're legitimately being insulted and demeaned and totally not because they're snowflakes. Got it.

Pity they get triggered by coffee cups that don't say "merry Christmas", or football players that don't stand for the anthem, frank discussions about racism, etc.

You don't find it strange that so many men... aren't offended by it?
Something is toxic here all right.
 

DMNknight

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No I disagree. They may be thoughtless when they use them but I doubt that. But if a man is overly sensitive at the time - he can read things into her words that are not there. Just as she can do to his.
To me words are very important. It can be the difference between the truth and a lie.
It comes down to understanding the some of real differences between men and women. Men, in general have have physicality as offensive/defensive mechanisms which is why when things go badly between a man and woman, the nature of abuse dealt is physical.
Women do not, in general, have this physicality, so it's down to wit and words. Abuse of this nature comes down to reputational, emotional and image damage.

Further to this, No one person can know what it is to be another. However, men can more sympathise with being kicked in the nuts with other men, than women can. The exact same is true for experiences unique to women.

We can get buried in layers if experiential differentiation between experiences and empathy, I get that, but the point remains is that you won't know until you have experienced it first hand.

So, women are adept at verbal fencing and the misconception here is that because men are physically "tough" or are supposed to be, that men have the mental fortitude to absorb or deflect the damage that a woman's tongue brings forth. But those men that have not grown up with mothers or sisters, will have very little built-in defenses to mitigate it.
Let's equate it to men who shoulder punch each other as signs of affection. If a guy punches his girl on the shoulder for the first time in the same way, he's going to automatically punch as if she were a guy, because his friends would see it coming and brace for it. She doesn't and ends up off the path or in a bush, perhaps with a bruise.
If he wants to show that "affection" again, he's going to moderate it so that she's not going to end up in the vegetation.

Emjay pointed out that herself and sisters did that all the time and they're no worse for wear. I would point out that 3 martial artists who grew up together would know how to defend and attack each other without there being lasting damage.

To a woman who is adept a verbal sparring, a guy without the same abilities would seem to be "overly sensitive".

With the advent of social media, which is a communications based technology and therefore a verbal sparring enabling technology. This is a technology that empowers the verbal sparring of women and has far reaching consequences.

Get my point?
 
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