Paid-for international video streaming illegal in South Africa

[Macethy]

It's not illegal to import by mail or courier. It's not illegal to bring in on your iPhone or HDD. It's not illegal to download.

What the issue is that Netflix may not have the rights to broadcast video in South Africa. But Netflix also broadcasts video which MIH does not have rights for. If someone else does not own rights to a work in SA, that work is perfectly legal to be shown in SA.

Secondly, Netflix does not broadcast in SA even when Van Der Merwe watches it from Bloem. They stream out of their cable and what happens to the electrons beyond that is not their problem.

It makes perfect sense. The license holders can license their product however they like. The reality however is as undeniable as gravity and not in favour of the license holder's ideas of how the world should work.

Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

So what about if you stream/download movies for the US iTunes store? I know that there is a SA iTunes, but would that be considered "illegal" then? Just trying to understand this situation...

 

[Macethy]

The license holders license a work to a distributor to protect that distributor from others competing with them. Individuals can however still do their own imports. A DVD sent through mail order is processed using a local transaction in the US. It was sold in the US, became the property of the buyer and he brought it in for personal use.

Now I'm confused. I don't really see a difference if you say buy a DVD from overseas and import it, or if you download/stream it from the US iTunes.

 

[NeonNinja]

Who cares?

 

[HapticSimian]

Now I'm confused. I don't really see a difference if you say buy a DVD from overseas and import it, or if you download/stream it from the US iTunes.

You don't, most reasonable people wouldn't, but rights holders and content providers do. That's why there's an issue...

 

[Happy Camper]

Who cares?

People that like media but don't want to be ripped a new one for it!

Get it?

 

[waz7710]

Here here, Multichoice.........Suck em STINKY balls!!! A Monopoly only destroys advancement for all and ONLY benefit the few!!! So time to unplug yourselves from our homes.......

 

[grok]

Who cares?

Exactly. If there's no easy way to get content legally, just make up your own rules and do whatever the hell you want.

Everyone needs to do their bit, the resistance needs you.

 

[LCBXX]

The Lawyer in the article does state that even though it is not legal, it is not criminal. I also don't see how this information should impact anyone currently involved in "illegal" streaming. As you were.

Suck em STINKY balls!!!

Wash, that's just nasty.

 

[waz7710]

At least the producers of the content are making their share of money from services like Netflix & Amazon........so just LEAVE us alone! Multichoice........Pffffffffff........I think more like "NO"choice

 

[waz7710]

@lcbxx.......Will do

 

[icyrus]

The license holders license a work to a distributor to protect that distributor from others competing with them. Individuals can however still do their own imports. A DVD sent through mail order is processed using a local transaction in the US. It was sold in the US, became the property of the buyer and he brought it in for personal use.

It never becomes the property of the buyer, that's the whole point. You get a license, with terms.

Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

So what about if you stream/download movies for the US iTunes store? I know that there is a SA iTunes, but would that be considered "illegal" then? Just trying to understand this situation...

It would be in breach of the license terms of the media. Streaming services provide the media with a specific license and that normally includes location restrictions.

Now I'm confused. I don't really see a difference if you say buy a DVD from overseas and import it, or if you download/stream it from the US iTunes.

If you buy a DVD overseas its license is also restricted to the location/region you bought it in generally. Hence the region controls on DVDs.

 

[Space_Chief]

Now I'm confused. I don't really see a difference if you say buy a DVD from overseas and import it, or if you download/stream it from the US iTunes.

The licensing issues are about distribution rights. This allows MIH to advertise a show and have exclusive rights to make money off of it in SA. However that has nothing to do with the individual getting his own copy of the show. He just can't resell it commercially.

You can import a DVD from US before it's even shown on DSTV. Customs won't stop it. But if you import a 1000 DVDs and start selling them for cheaper than NuMetro, they may sue you.

MIH is just being nasty in over representing their case. NetFlix at al is not supposed to be selling to us, but Netflix at al can't be blamed if someone spoofs a DNS entry and we are under no licensing obligations with anyone not to view and pay for what we want. And as said DVDs are sold legally, even though the DVD says "Not for sale outside of North America."

The Not for Sale Outside of North America is not binding on me. I have no obligation to be restricted by that. But broadcasters who are members of associations and which can be sanctioned in civil lawsuits have to follow these rules to avoid lawsuits etc.

The product was sold in USA, even though I was not in USA when I clicked PAY on the Amazon.com site. The CC transaction is listed as ANAHEIM CA and is in US Dollars. Heck Amazon even knows they are shipping the DVD outside of the area it's licensed for.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Now I'm confused. I don't really see a difference if you say buy a DVD from overseas and import it, or if you download/stream it from the US iTunes.

Multichoice are upset that you're not paying them money... plain and simple..

 

[biometrics]

Multichoice should shut down Mweb if they're so sure of their case.

 

[F1 Fan]

DSTV take all people for idiots basically, and Im assuming they may be feeling the pinch with the amount of customers they are losing.

 

[Space_Chief]

It never becomes the property of the buyer, that's the whole point. You get a license, with terms.

That would imply I signed an agreement. I did not do that. So your point is invalid. EULAS are similar. They're not even binding in many regions. You see this issue is not as clear cut as you want to make it out.

Did you follow the EBAY case in the US of an Indian student reselling Third World textbooks to US citizens? Guess what, the US Supreme Court upheld that he is allowed to do that. Copyright be damned.

It would be in breach of the license terms of the media. Streaming services provide the media with a specific license and that normally includes location restrictions.

The license terms are for distributors. If I buy a DVD i.e. medium and software on it, it's mine to do with what I please. I can take it with me to Australia or China, or send it to a friend in Singapore.

If you buy a DVD overseas its license is also restricted to the location/region you bought it in generally. Hence the region controls on DVDs.

And you can also buy a Region 1 DVD player and import it into SA. It's not illegal. Neither is software which ignores region locks.

I have a multi-region Bluray player and watch Region A blurays on it. Sure it's foreign stuff and anime, and so not on MIH's list of licensed properties, but it's not illegal. Customs let my BD player through and I paid charges on it. Customs let my BDs through too.

(It would only be illegal if it were contraband like child porno or bestiality.)

(If it's not those, it's legal.)

 

[icyrus]

That would imply I signed an agreement. I did not do that. So your point is invalid.

You agreed when you bought the media.

EULAS are similar. They're not even binding in many regions. You see this issue is not as clear cut as you want to make it out.

And they are binding in other regions. The terms attached to the licensing are clear, their legal protections across the world aren't.

The license terms are for distributors. If I buy a DVD i.e. medium and software on it, it's mine to do with what I please. I can take it with me to Australia or China, or send it to a friend in Singapore.

The license terms are for consumers, as the license terms for distributors are quite different. You can't do what you like with the media, you can do what the law and/or license allows you to. The fact that a specific country's laws and some media's licensing terms aren't always in harmony doesn't change the fact that the terms are there. If your point is that some of the terms cannot be enforced in certain situations across the world, I'd agree.

And you can also buy a Region 1 DVD player and import it into SA. It's not illegal. Neither is software which ignores region locks.

Probably not illegal, I wouldn't know.

 

[Space_Chief]

You agreed when you bought the media.

No I did not. No-one asked me to sign anything or click I agree. And even if I did that, I am not obliged to not change my mind.
So you're hopelessly wrong here.

But broadcasters actually do sign such agreements. They can be held in breach if Sony South Africa resells music to USA and EMI owns the rights there and challenges them. This is what these licensing restrictions are about.

And they are binding in other regions. The terms attached to the licensing are clear, their legal protections across the world aren't.

Those regions where laws are still pretty primitive and unchallenged. EULAS are also not something you sign. I don't think a court can prosecute for that, even here.

The license terms are for consumers, as the license terms for distributors are quite different. You can't do what you like with the media, you can do what the law and/or license allows you to. The fact that a specific countries laws and some media's licensing terms aren't always in harmony doesn't change the fact that the terms are there. If your point is that some of the terms cannot be enforced in certain situations across the world, I'd agree.

I am not allowed to publicly broadcast and share, I agree. But I am able to view at home. Those license terms I agree with. But the Region 1/A DVD/Bluray is mine and is 100% legal.

If this was illegal in terms of licensing regulations (not criminal law) then Amazon.com would long have been sued. No-one has ever sued them or the distributor who sells to them knowing well that a large proportion of these DVDs will be sold outside of USA.

 

[The Trutherizer]

Ok but why do people opt to do this? Because it's so much cheaper. And unless our local companies are letting themselves be ripped off by the content providers they either...

A: Have nonsensical bouquets to choose from. Lumping together channels in such as way as to maximise profit regardless of the demographics needs. And in so doing making their products undesirable.
B: Generally overcharge for their services.

I think these are the only two options (as I said barring the possibility that they are themselves being ripped off). The internet services are much, much more affordable than what we can get locally. And I think it is a little bit of both tbh...

And I'm not saying HD content should be priced cheaply, but if that is where they want to position themselves then it should be perfectly legal to make use of internet services at SD qualities. It's a different animal altogether. Inc Vat of course.

 

[HapticSimian]

There's an additional reason: convenience. Convenience of not being bound to a broadcast schedule, and of not worrying about Eskom's war on your PVR's recording timetable.