Parents fume as black and white grade R children are 'separated' in North West classroom

ɹǝuuᴉM

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Why does this matter ? In fact, since when is Zulu the primary language in South Africa ?
All things equal South Africa should have only english first language schools at least that would prepare every kid to have basic english education. If they want to learn other languages or their home language at school they can take it as secondary.

Catering for all our language at a primary language will cause division in schools and isolation in school where you are forced to attend based on the decided primary language even if that is not your home language.

In short, keep home language out of school. Standardize and get use to learning english as a primary language in school. This will put every student on level playing field from grade R upwards.

The only kids who would have a slight advantage is native english speaking kids but considering the population of english speaking citizens(home language) is in the low 5% then it would suggest the other 95% (all the black languages, afrikaans, hindu, arabic, you name it) would all be on same learning platform from day 1, no one with an advantage over the other.
The last 20 or so posts though me a lot about South Africa. Now I understand why things are sooo messed up.
@John Tempus I hope your are not serious because if you are and if enough South Africans think that way, than SA is really a hopeless case.
I always though that whites were the ones forcing blacks to speak an European language. How wrong I was. Clearly, some Africans are not proud of their culture. Of who they are. Their heritage. OMG If that's the case, South Africa has much bigger issues than load shedding and rampant crime and corruption. #SoSad
 

John Tempus

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The last 20 or so posts though me a lot about South Africa. Now I understand why things are sooo messed up.
@John Tempus I hope your are not serious because if you are and if enough South Africans think that way, than SA is really a hopeless case.
I always though that whites were the ones forcing blacks to speak an European language. How wrong I was. Clearly, some Africans are not proud of their culture. Of who they are. Their heritage. OMG If that's the case, South Africa has much bigger issues than load shedding and rampant crime and corruption. #SoSad
Why wouldn't I be serious ?

Do you think SA can equally provide quality teachers and quality schools all focusing on a different primary language ? It is not economically feasible nor will it offer top teachers for all of the seperate languages if they were to be primary languages used i every class at the specific school.

If english is primary language in all school, it creates a level education where quality teachers would not be prevented from teaching at some specific schools just cause they dont speak Xhosa,Zulu, or whatever other language.

Guess what, there is a good reason why english is such a prominent language in the western world. Having one core language makes communication much easier than having 300 languages that you might see in places like India.

One language in class = better education = everyone wins.

If you think this is extreme you have not thought about all the benefits to this. This would not prevent students from taking other language classes they prefer but lets be honest with each other , your home language wont simply die if you dont hear it all the time at school. I am completely afrikaans at home but in my profession and everyday life outside home I use 99% of the time english for a reason.
 

Sollie

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Thanks. Brilliant article tbh. It shows how facts were twisted then published without being verified. Example:
The wall of silence was finally broken, it seemed, in an article by News24 headlined More tension as parents and security guards clash outside Laerskool Schweizer-Reneke. The journalist described the “pandemonium” on Monday afternoon, the 14th of January, after “security guards and parents clashed”. A man, Thami Moremi, had arrived to collect his niece, who was in Grade R, but the security guards the school had employed had turned him away. Moremi, was then reportedly joined by “other parents” in “hurling insults at the guards and accusing them of being racists”. The journalist quoted Moremi at length, and his utterances were also filmed and widely disseminated in the English-language press:

"I am coming back with more people in a minibus taxi. You are racists. I am bringing more people here. I will teach you a lesson. I have a child here. You come with sh*t.”
"We don't want to see you here again. You are full of apartheid. We want the department to employ a black principal, we are tired of white people."

"This school is full racists. I am asking the minister and MEC for education to shut down this school until all racists are gone. White people are not asked to explain themselves when they arrive at the school to fetch their children.”
Here at last was a clear cut case of both an angry ‘parent’ and gross racial discrimination at the school. Netwerk24 went one step further in its reporting and actually interviewed the mother of the child involved. She was distraught. It turned out that Moremi was an EFF member and he had falsely claimed her daughter as his own child when she went to pick her up, in an effort to gain access to the school property. Near to tears, she told the publication: “My child cries when she can’t come to school, she is very happy here. The school is not racist, black and white children are not kept apart from each other.”
 

Sollie

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I believe it would be appropriate to have a law that no political party should trsspass on a school while school is in progress. Oh wait - we have it! What now?

I hope we see an attempted kidnapping charge against Thami Moremi. But oh wait ...

It does not help we have laws that aren't enforced. It does not help that we have standards of journalism that is not enforced ...
 

noxibox

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If english is primary language in all school, it creates a level education where quality teachers would not be prevented from teaching at some specific schools just cause they dont speak Xhosa,Zulu, or whatever other language.

Guess what, there is a good reason why english is such a prominent language in the western world. Having one core language makes communication much easier than having 300 languages that you might see in places like India.

One language in class = better education = everyone wins.

If you think this is extreme you have not thought about all the benefits to this. This would not prevent students from taking other language classes they prefer but lets be honest with each other , your home language wont simply die if you dont hear it all the time at school. I am completely afrikaans at home but in my profession and everyday life outside home I use 99% of the time english for a reason.
If your goal is to disadvantage children whose home language is not English then this is definitely the way to go. The evidence is clear that early primary education should be conducted in a child's home language and that if your intent is to switch to another language later on you need to build proficiency in the second language in parallel. In all likelihood they'd only be ready for education exclusively in the second language at secondary school level.

It has been South African education policy to force education in a second language and it has been an unmitigated disaster. As I recall they were even warned that it wasn't a good idea, but they went ahead anyway.
 

John Tempus

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If your goal is to disadvantage children whose home language is not English then this is definitely the way to go. The evidence is clear that early primary education should be conducted in a child's home language and that if your intent is to switch to another language later on you need to build proficiency in the second language in parallel. In all likelihood they'd only be ready for education exclusively in the second language at secondary school level.

It has been South African education policy to force education in a second language and it has been an unmitigated disaster. As I recall they were even warned that it wasn't a good idea, but they went ahead anyway.
Are you deliberately ignoring the points I made ?

If your home language is not english and you go to a school who uses the primary language that is your home language. You will not progress and when you reach real life you will be next to useless in english and then bitch and moan why you do not get the good jobs. Guess what, English as a primary language opens up doors for you in any company local or international. Focusing on your home language be it Afrikaans,Xhosa,Zulu,etc. does not open doors for you in the real world and will not empower you.

If your home language is so important for you then take it as second language but my point is that no school should be forced to use Xhosa,Zulu,Afrikaans,etc. as the primary language at the school. This creates the whole issue we are all apparently claiming to fight against ie. non diversification. Why in the world would someone who only speaks Zulu or Xhosa go to a top tier Afrikaans or English school if Zulu,Xhosa is not the primary language spoken ?

The whole issue could be addressed by starting off with public schools focusing on english as primary language of the school from Grade 1. If the funds come out of the tax payer coffer then any discrimination of fund usage for Afrikaans,Zulu,Xhosa,etc. primary language public schools is in effect picking winners and losers. Private school I couldnt care what they do with their own funding that is a private matter and if a private school thinks it is economically feasible for them to focus only on Afrikaans,English,Zulu,Xhosa,etc. then so be it, they are not hurting tax payers since they are operating as a for profit business so if they succeed great and if they fail well it is their decision.

If SA want to really focus on optimizing studies from a young age for the real world then they need to do this. We simply cannot afford quality education in every official language as a primary language at schools. Plus, some of our official languages have very low usage numbers so please tell me how do we decide which of these languages is more important than the other. If one official language is only spoken by 0.1% of the population vs another spoken by 10% of the population are we not discriminating if we don't provide the exact same quality education for the 0.1% in their primary language ?

All of these issues could be addressed by starting english as a primary language young right at Grade 1. I went to an all afrikaans school , spoke afrikaans at home, had little interaction with english speaking students until high school and at home only speak afrikaans(even today). My early years I also did not have internet to get additional exposure with the english language and still today I am proficient because in business I am 100% dealing with english clients/technical details/etc. My point here is that if I did not actually put in the effort myself to learn English as much and as often as I possibly could then I would have been no better than a plattelandse japie with their thick afrikaans accents and zero command of english language. This is the situation we create with our public education system, kids on average will not put in any effort to learn a language beyond what they use at school until they get to the age where they need to know the language(english in this case) and they are simply too old to pick it up effectively. They are now royally screwed for life.

Take a look at how many of our politicians have more "eish,eh" and zero understanding in english when they interpret laws written on the books in english. If we don't make these adjustments to our education now then our next wave of politicians running this country will not improve and be dumbed down even further.

More claims without research ? Just stating something as fact does not make it fact. The opposite is true, the younger you are the easier it is for you to pick up languages. How you actually can think that learning to be proficient in the language that will open the most doors for you once you are older is a bad thing then you are unable to think critical about this at all and seems to have an emotional agenda, nothing more.

"The evidence is clear that early primary education should be conducted in a child's home language and that if your intent is to switch to another language later on you need to build proficiency in the second language in parallel."


Please show me the research or evidence of your vague claim regarding the following:

"It has been South African education policy to force education in a second language and it has been an unmitigated disaster. As I recall they were even warned that it wasn't a good idea, but they went ahead anyway. "

A home language should remain a home language. Your home language have no practical bearing on the real world and if it so happen to be that your home language is not english then you just need to stop pussyfooting around the issue and get in touch with the real world otherwise we will have clueless people without a basic command of the english language demanding better jobs or it is discrimination.

Guess what, of all things you can learn in life the study of language have the lowest point of zero returns. If you have next to no enforced english before you reach 16 then good luck picking it up at all later it becomes near impossible to learn languages efficiently with ease after 20 and now we have a generation completely illiterate with regards to english going through life just because they wanted to only be taught in their home(useless in real world) language.
 
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Zoomzoom

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Are you deliberately ignoring the points I made ?

If your home language is not english and you go to a school who uses the primary language that is your home language. You will not progress and when you reach real life you will be next to useless in english and then bitch and moan why you do not get the good jobs. Guess what, English as a primary language opens up doors for you in any company local or international. Focusing on your home language be it Afrikaans,Xhosa,Zulu,etc. does not open doors for you in the real world and will not empower you.

If your home language is so important for you then take it as second language but my point is that no school should be forced to use Xhosa,Zulu,Afrikaans,etc. as the primary language at the school. This creates the whole issue we are all apparently claiming to fight against ie. non diversification. Why in the world would someone who only speaks Zulu or Xhosa go to a top tier Afrikaans or English school if Zulu,Xhosa is not the primary language spoken ?

The whole issue could be addressed by starting off with public schools focusing on english as primary language of the school from Grade 1. If the funds come out of the tax payer coffer then any discrimination of fund usage for Afrikaans,Zulu,Xhosa,etc. primary language public schools is in effect picking winners and losers. Private school I couldnt care what they do with their own funding that is a private matter and if a private school thinks it is economically feasible for them to focus only on Afrikaans,English,Zulu,Xhosa,etc. then so be it, they are not hurting tax payers since they are operating as a for profit business so if they succeed great and if they fail well it is their decision.

If SA want to really focus on optimizing studies from a young age for the real world then they need to do this. We simply cannot afford quality education in every official language as a primary language at schools. Plus, some of our official languages have very low usage numbers so please tell me how do we decide which of these languages is more important than the other. If one official language is only spoken by 0.1% of the population vs another spoken by 10% of the population are we not discriminating if we don't provide the exact same quality education for the 0.1% in their primary language ?

All of these issues could be addressed by starting english as a primary language young right at Grade 1. I went to an all afrikaans school , spoke afrikaans at home, had little interaction with english speaking students until high school and at home only speak afrikaans(even today). My early years I also did not have internet to get additional exposure with the english language and still today I am proficient because in business I am 100% dealing with english clients/technical details/etc. My point here is that if I did not actually put in the effort myself to learn English as much and as often as I possibly could then I would have been no better than a plattelandse japie with their thick afrikaans accents and zero command of english language. This is the situation we create with our public education system, kids on average will not put in any effort to learn a language beyond what they use at school until they get to the age where they need to know the language(english in this case) and they are simply too old to pick it up effectively. They are now royally screwed for life.

Take a look at how many of our politicians have more "eish,eh" and zero understanding in english when they interpret laws written on the books in english. If we don't make these adjustments to our education now then our next wave of politicians running this country will not improve and be dumbed down even further.

More claims without research ? Just stating something as fact does not make it fact. The opposite is true, the younger you are the easier it is for you to pick up languages. How you actually can think that learning to be proficient in the language that will open the most doors for you once you are older is a bad thing then you are unable to think critical about this at all and seems to have an emotional agenda, nothing more.

"The evidence is clear that early primary education should be conducted in a child's home language and that if your intent is to switch to another language later on you need to build proficiency in the second language in parallel."


Please show me the research or evidence of your vague claim regarding the following:

"It has been South African education policy to force education in a second language and it has been an unmitigated disaster. As I recall they were even warned that it wasn't a good idea, but they went ahead anyway. "

A home language should remain a home language. Your home language have no practical bearing on the real world and if it so happen to be that your home language is not english then you just need to stop pussyfooting around the issue and get in touch with the real world otherwise we will have clueless people without a basic command of the english language demanding better jobs or it is discrimination.

Guess what, of all things you can learn in life the study of language have the lowest point of zero returns. If you have next to no enforced english before you reach 16 then good luck picking it up at all later it becomes near impossible to learn languages efficiently with ease after 20 and now we have a generation completely illiterate with regards to english going through life just because they wanted to only be taught in their home(useless in real world) language.

What you are advocating (and what South African education is doing) is proven to seriously negatively affect learners ability to learn.

In countries where English is not the first language, many parents and communities believe their children will get a head-start in education by going 'straight for English' and bypassing the home language.
This is what you believe right? Just go straight to English, learn it from the start in order to get ahead. Well here is the problem with that idea:

  • using the mother tongue in early education leads to a better understanding of the curriculum content and to a more positive attitude towards school.

  • by using the learners’ home language, schools can help children navigate the new environment and bridge their learning at school with the experience they bring from home.

  • by using the learners’ home language, learners are more likely to engage in the learning process.

  • when learners start school in a language that is still new to them, it leads to a teacher-centred approach and reinforces passiveness and silence in classrooms. This makes the learning experience unpleasant.

  • A crucial learning aim in the early years of education is the development of basic literacy skills: reading, writing and arithmetic. Essentially, the skills of reading and writing come down to the ability to associate the sounds of a language with the letters or symbols used in the written form. These skills build on the foundational and interactional skills of speaking and listening. When learners speak or understand the language used to instruct them, they develop reading and writing skills faster and in a more meaningful way. Introducing reading and writing to learners in a language they speak and understand leads to great excitement when they discover that they can make sense of written texts and can write the names of people and things in their environment. Research in Early Grade Reading (EGRA) has shown that pupils who develop reading skills early have a head-start in education.

  • A learner who knows how to read and write in one language will develop reading and writing skills in a new language faster. The learner already knows that letters represent sounds, the only new learning he or she needs is how the new language ‘sounds’ its letters. In the same way, learners automatically transfer knowledge acquired in one language to another language as soon as they have learned sufficient vocabulary in the new language. For example, if you teach learners in their mother tongue, that seeds need soil, moisture and warmth to germinate. You do not have to re-teach this in English. When they have developed adequate vocabulary in English, they will translate the information. Thus, knowledge and skills are transferable from one language to another. Starting school in the learners’ mother tongue does not delay education but leads to faster acquisition of the skills and attitudes needed for success in formal education.

  • Research has shown that in learning situations where both the teacher and the learner are non-native users of the language of instruction, the teacher struggles as much as the learners, particularly at the start of education. But when teaching starts in the teachers’ and learners’ home language, the experience is more natural and less stressful for all.

  • According to research teaching younger children in a language that is not their mother tongue appears to disrupt cognitive ability and interferes with the learning process

 

Emjay

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So what's more important? Smaller classroom sizes, teachers to teach content, or teaching in the children's mother tongue? Issue is we have so many official languages, who is going to pay for all these teachers?

You guys can argue what is better all day. There is just no practical way to implement what you suggest. Unless you are willing to pay for some teacher's salaries yourselves?
 

Daruk

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So what's more important? Smaller classroom sizes, teachers to teach content, or teaching in the children's mother tongue? Issue is we have so many official languages, who is going to pay for all these teachers?

You guys can argue what is better all day. There is just no practical way to implement what you suggest. Unless you are willing to pay for some teacher's salaries yourselves?
Agree, and just look at how Tanzania regressed by only offering Swahili at public schools. That’s changed now.
 

Emjay

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Agree, and just look at how Tanzania regressed by only offering Swahili at public schools. That’s changed now.
The issue is generational anyway. We could get rid of this issue by ensuring that we instruct in two or three languages, and then parents will have to decide what to do. Either teach their kids the official languages, or let them go through the schooling system without the correct foundation. At some point, the parents have to take responsibility. If they want their children to be instructed in their own home language, they should cover those costs themselves.
 

access

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Are you deliberately ignoring the points I made ?

If your home language is not english and you go to a school who uses the primary language that is your home language. You will not progress and when you reach real life you will be next to useless in english and then bitch and moan why you do not get the good jobs. Guess what, English as a primary language opens up doors for you in any company local or international. Focusing on your home language be it Afrikaans,Xhosa,Zulu,etc. does not open doors for you in the real world and will not empower you.

If your home language is so important for you then take it as second language but my point is that no school should be forced to use Xhosa,Zulu,Afrikaans,etc. as the primary language at the school. This creates the whole issue we are all apparently claiming to fight against ie. non diversification. Why in the world would someone who only speaks Zulu or Xhosa go to a top tier Afrikaans or English school if Zulu,Xhosa is not the primary language spoken ?

The whole issue could be addressed by starting off with public schools focusing on english as primary language of the school from Grade 1. If the funds come out of the tax payer coffer then any discrimination of fund usage for Afrikaans,Zulu,Xhosa,etc. primary language public schools is in effect picking winners and losers. Private school I couldnt care what they do with their own funding that is a private matter and if a private school thinks it is economically feasible for them to focus only on Afrikaans,English,Zulu,Xhosa,etc. then so be it, they are not hurting tax payers since they are operating as a for profit business so if they succeed great and if they fail well it is their decision.

If SA want to really focus on optimizing studies from a young age for the real world then they need to do this. We simply cannot afford quality education in every official language as a primary language at schools. Plus, some of our official languages have very low usage numbers so please tell me how do we decide which of these languages is more important than the other. If one official language is only spoken by 0.1% of the population vs another spoken by 10% of the population are we not discriminating if we don't provide the exact same quality education for the 0.1% in their primary language ?

All of these issues could be addressed by starting english as a primary language young right at Grade 1. I went to an all afrikaans school , spoke afrikaans at home, had little interaction with english speaking students until high school and at home only speak afrikaans(even today). My early years I also did not have internet to get additional exposure with the english language and still today I am proficient because in business I am 100% dealing with english clients/technical details/etc. My point here is that if I did not actually put in the effort myself to learn English as much and as often as I possibly could then I would have been no better than a plattelandse japie with their thick afrikaans accents and zero command of english language. This is the situation we create with our public education system, kids on average will not put in any effort to learn a language beyond what they use at school until they get to the age where they need to know the language(english in this case) and they are simply too old to pick it up effectively. They are now royally screwed for life.

Take a look at how many of our politicians have more "eish,eh" and zero understanding in english when they interpret laws written on the books in english. If we don't make these adjustments to our education now then our next wave of politicians running this country will not improve and be dumbed down even further.

More claims without research ? Just stating something as fact does not make it fact. The opposite is true, the younger you are the easier it is for you to pick up languages. How you actually can think that learning to be proficient in the language that will open the most doors for you once you are older is a bad thing then you are unable to think critical about this at all and seems to have an emotional agenda, nothing more.

"The evidence is clear that early primary education should be conducted in a child's home language and that if your intent is to switch to another language later on you need to build proficiency in the second language in parallel."


Please show me the research or evidence of your vague claim regarding the following:

"It has been South African education policy to force education in a second language and it has been an unmitigated disaster. As I recall they were even warned that it wasn't a good idea, but they went ahead anyway. "

A home language should remain a home language. Your home language have no practical bearing on the real world and if it so happen to be that your home language is not english then you just need to stop pussyfooting around the issue and get in touch with the real world otherwise we will have clueless people without a basic command of the english language demanding better jobs or it is discrimination.

Guess what, of all things you can learn in life the study of language have the lowest point of zero returns. If you have next to no enforced english before you reach 16 then good luck picking it up at all later it becomes near impossible to learn languages efficiently with ease after 20 and now we have a generation completely illiterate with regards to english going through life just because they wanted to only be taught in their home(useless in real world) language.
:thumbsdown: need one of these buttons
 

Geoff.D

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Absolutely agree! There must be a dislike button, All we have to express our displeasure is a report option, which does not apply if one just wants to show displeasure about a comment or post. Reporting a post is for violations of the T&Cs of the forum and other aspects of a post, not for showing displeasure.
 

Mista_Mobsta

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Messages
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Love that article on Politics Web. I also love how it exposes all those politicians that latched onto the racial element so quickly. I love how they expose the politics of the moment - all focus was on the perceived "racial" element and no focus was on the bigger issue...grown men and women forcibly and willfully intimidating KIDS by breaking and entering into a Primary School! What did these moronic politicians say about that? Complete silence. Any adult that looks at this behavior and just goes "ah it's ok because racism", please, do not attempt to breed. You don't deserve kids. Lastly, to that EFF man pretending to have a kid in that school, **** you utterly. Barbarians being allowed to act out in front of kids and then we wonder why certain kids act out when they grow older? They have parents called barbarians. Barbarian sees barbarian does.
 

Freddl

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Issue is we have so many official languages, who is going to pay for all these teachers?

You guys can argue what is better all day. There is just no practical way to implement what you suggest. Unless you are willing to pay for some teacher's salaries yourselves?
In what country are you living? Did you think that the government pays the salaries of all the teachers at the better schools? At your average former model C school, the parents pay the salaries of up to half of the teachers at the school.

To John Tempus I just want to say that you should use Google to your advantage. Just a quick search will give you links to ten or 20 academic papers explaining why mother tongue teaching in the elementary phase of school is vital. In South Africa, the government ( and a few misguided souls such as you) are creating a whole generation of under performing idiots.
 

Emjay

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In what country are you living? Did you think that the government pays the salaries of all the teachers at the better schools? At your average former model C school, the parents pay the salaries of up to half of the teachers at the school.

To John Tempus I just want to say that you should use Google to your advantage. Just a quick search will give you links to ten or 20 academic papers explaining why mother tongue teaching in the elementary phase of school is vital. In South Africa, the government ( and a few misguided souls such as you) are creating a whole generation of under performing idiots.
What exactly is your point? That parents will pay for their own teachers?

Are you blind to the realities in the classrooms at present? Now you want to add more costs into the existing curriculum?
 
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