Parents fume as black and white grade R children are 'separated' in North West classroom

Freddl

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What exactly is your point? That parents will pay for their own teachers?
That is exactly what is happening at the moment. Parents pay for their own teachers. You do get a few freeloaders who apply for exemption of school fees and then the other parents must take up the slack, but in general the government contributes very little towards the cost of a school in the suburbs.
 

Emjay

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That is exactly what is happening at the moment. Parents pay for their own teachers. You do get a few freeloaders who apply for exemption of school fees and then the other parents must take up the slack, but in general the government contributes very little towards the cost of a school in the suburbs.
And the issue is not the schools in the suburbs. The schools that need to be taught in different languages are the ones in the rural and poor communities. Maybe you should be less critical of others and apply a bit of logic to your posts. The suburban schools arguably are ok as they have high pass rates. The schools producing learners who are unprepared for the work place or even the easiest degrees / courses are the incredibly poor ones, and therefore cannot pay for those additional teachers that would be required, the classrooms, teaching tools, books, content, etc.
 

Freddl

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Emjay, the problems at rural schools are systemic and only proper planning by expert educators can solve that. Unfortunately our government education departments do not have the expertise or the political will to solve those problems.
 

ɹǝuuᴉM

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Why wouldn't I be serious ?

Do you think SA can equally provide quality teachers and quality schools all focusing on a different primary language ? It is not economically feasible nor will it offer top teachers for all of the seperate languages if they were to be primary languages used i every class at the specific school.

If english is primary language in all school, it creates a level education where quality teachers would not be prevented from teaching at some specific schools just cause they dont speak Xhosa,Zulu, or whatever other language.

Guess what, there is a good reason why english is such a prominent language in the western world. Having one core language makes communication much easier than having 300 languages that you might see in places like India.

One language in class = better education = everyone wins.

If you think this is extreme you have not thought about all the benefits to this. This would not prevent students from taking other language classes they prefer but lets be honest with each other , your home language wont simply die if you dont hear it all the time at school. I am completely afrikaans at home but in my profession and everyday life outside home I use 99% of the time english for a reason.
What you are asking for is MADNESS !!!
Such a comprehensive social engineering endeavour has never been attempted before on a population of 50million+. Not only it is morally wrong but it is also discriminatory. You are basically saying that african languages are second grade. Not good enough. Not worthy. Imagine if all the Germans would have to forget german and switch to French OMG You are a lunatic. Not even the apartheid government tried to do that. In the "homelands" blacks were allowed to carry on with their culture and languages. Yes, it might be advantageous but at what price. Never.
 

John Tempus

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What you are asking for is MADNESS !!!
Such a comprehensive social engineering endeavour has never been attempted before on a population of 50million+. Not only it is morally wrong but it is also discriminatory. You are basically saying that african languages are second grade. Not good enough. Not worthy. Imagine if all the Germans would have to forget german and switch to French OMG You are a lunatic. Not even the apartheid government tried to do that. In the "homelands" blacks were allowed to carry on with their culture and languages. Yes, it might be advantageous but at what price. Never.
Morally wrong because it will improve everyones lives involved in it for the better ? Guilty.

Not once did I suggest anyone forget their mother tongue but in todays world if you want to make it outside the scope of your own little town that is some obscure native language then you better be proficient in english else you just become another child sucking on the teet of the government in no time.

If we had better english literacy for the South Africa black population we would have a much better logical society that would be able to disseminate fact from fiction and stop voting with their emotions that is handed down in their own local language wherever they are situated.

Let me play reversal on that in case you think I am just a racist or whatever snowflakes want to call logical thinkers. Go to some deep Afrikaner town where they can barely speak/read/write english even today and become some sort of elder in that town who can speak afrikaans and understand english proficiently. This Afrikaans elder have complete political power over the afrikaans only citizens in this town and more often than not would be seen as the wise elder of the town just based on his english proficiency.

Now multiply this scenario by 10000 and you have a large voting block controlled by elders who are controlled by the ANC and other useless political parties. What these elders tell their "flock" is exactly how their "flock" would vote.

PS. All languages are second grade(facts like this should not hurt but educate) on a self sufficient international level. Before you suggest why not learn Mandarin well simply because it locks you into a single continent yet again. On a global scale English is still absolute King. Your african language is important for cultural purposes/at home/with friends/etc. but beyond that if you suck at english and is proficient in some african language you will have a really shtty life to look forward to, even if you remain only in SA your african language will only get you so far before others proficient in english will pass you by in droves.

Apartheid at its peak did not do this because they wanted to keep the black tribes uneducated and isolated in their own misery and "poorness". I dont even understand why you compare my suggestion with the Apartheid government and then use the Apartheid government not attempting this as a reason to claim my idea is poorly conceived. WOW, just WOW!
 

ɹǝuuᴉM

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Morally wrong because it will improve everyones lives involved in it for the better ? Guilty.

Not once did I suggest anyone forget their mother tongue but in todays world if you want to make it outside the scope of your own little town that is some obscure native language then you better be proficient in english else you just become another child sucking on the teet of the government in no time.

If we had better english literacy for the South Africa black population we would have a much better logical society that would be able to disseminate fact from fiction and stop voting with their emotions that is handed down in their own local language wherever they are situated.

Let me play reversal on that in case you think I am just a racist or whatever snowflakes want to call logical thinkers. Go to some deep Afrikaner town where they can barely speak/read/write english even today and become some sort of elder in that town who can speak afrikaans and understand english proficiently. This Afrikaans elder have complete political power over the afrikaans only citizens in this town and more often than not would be seen as the wise elder of the town just based on his english proficiency.

Now multiply this scenario by 10000 and you have a large voting block controlled by elders who are controlled by the ANC and other useless political parties. What these elders tell their "flock" is exactly how their "flock" would vote.

PS. All languages are second grade(facts like this should not hurt but educate) on a self sufficient international level. Before you suggest why not learn Mandarin well simply because it locks you into a single continent yet again. On a global scale English is still absolute King. Your african language is important for cultural purposes/at home/with friends/etc. but beyond that if you suck at english and is proficient in some african language you will have a really shtty life to look forward to, even if you remain only in SA your african language will only get you so far before others proficient in english will pass you by in droves.

Apartheid at its peak did not do this because they wanted to keep the black tribes uneducated and isolated in their own misery and "poorness". I dont even understand why you compare my suggestion with the Apartheid government and then use the Apartheid government not attempting this as a reason to claim my idea is poorly conceived. WOW, just WOW!
You write this endless posts trying to justify your lunacy. I am going to give an one word reply to your assumption I highlighted:
Haiti
95% of the population speaks but one (European) language and yet... #LiveWithIt
 
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John Tempus

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You write this endless posts trying to justify your lunacy. I am going to give an one word reply to your assumption I highlighted:
Haiti
95% of the population speaks but one (European) language and yet... #LiveWithIt
Your evidence is a island that have no reliable natural resources, no infrastructure, no education system, constant barrage of storms hitting and wiping out the island, pest and disease ?

I write in long responses to explain my position. People such as yourself write in short responses who have no position or case to make except denial and destitute.

Oh and they speak french primarily which is a useless language unless you want to go to all the shthole places french colonialism landed in Africa. If they spoke English as a primary language I can already imagine them being better off.

French is only useful if you want to travel to european french nations in any case , it is not remotely close to my whole argument. Want to strawman my case study even further ?

Do some research into countries where english is the native language then look at the GDP,life expectancy,job security etc. vs any country in the world where english is not a first language. It must be super coincidence and there must be ZERO reason behind this, right ?

I know you wont read and think about any of this, you already made up your snowflake idea that absolute diversity in language is better than having a structured first language everyone could work with and work around. I guess all the stories of Tower of Babylon fell on deaf ears even as an atheist I could support this story because it makes sense that if you have multiple different competing languages in a culture then everyone gets negatively affected.

If this is your definition of evidence then I think our discussion is over, you sir have flaming moron syndrome. Sowwy!
 
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Zoomzoom

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[QUOTE="John Tempus, post: 22959084, member: 470666]snip[/QUOTE]


Ignoring the belief that English somehow confers education, intelligence, knowledge, information (which it doesn't) here is some of the research you apparently have failed to read. In fact everything you attribute to English, is developed by educating in the child's mother tongue and NOT in a foreign language. Literacy, cognitive development, passion for learning etc. take place in a broader sphere than the classroom, and when you limit that sphere by forcing the primary school student in particular to learn in a foreign language you restrict even harm their ability to learn anything.

http://www.colorincolorado.org/article/home-language-english-language-learners-most-valuable-resource

https://consiliumeducation.com/itm/2017/08/20/mother-tongue-learning/

https://www.nordangliaeducation.com/our-schools/vietnam/ho-chi-minh-city/bis/article/2016/9/8/the-importance-of-first-language

https://nalibali.org/how-to/the-importance-home-languages-learning-to-read

https://www.wested.org/resources/dispelling-the-myth-of-english-only/ <- you might especially want to read this academic paper.

https://www.wvi.org/blogpost/importance-learning-read-my-mother-language

There are many many more resources.
 

ToxicBunny

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So Zoomzoom... are you going to respond to the fact that you were wrong about the Xhosa medium school that doesn't exist? Considering 10 seconds of Googling found one...

Or the fact that most Zulu and Xhosa medium schools will be heavily rural and won't have an online presence at all and therefore you can't Google for them?
 

Zoomzoom

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So Zoomzoom... are you going to respond to the fact that you were wrong about the Xhosa medium school that doesn't exist? Considering 10 seconds of Googling found one...

Or the fact that most Zulu and Xhosa medium schools will be heavily rural and won't have an online presence at all and therefore you can't Google for them?
Nope why? Do you actually regard ONE very small township school in the WC as invalidating the considerable weight of evidence from experts in the field of education in South Africa who state that the policy of the government is to have either English or Afrikaans as the medium of education from Grade 4 onwards, with English as a second language from Grade 1 to prepare for the switch in 3 years time.
 

ToxicBunny

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Nope why? Do you actually regard ONE very small township school in the WC as invalidating the considerable weight of evidence from experts in the field of education in South Africa who state that the policy of the government is to have either English or Afrikaans as the medium of education from Grade 4 onwards, with English as a second language from Grade 1 to prepare for the switch in 3 years time.
No, I'm just waiting for you to admit you were wrong... thats all... simple things.
 

ToxicBunny

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ok so I missed the one single solitary township school running on fumes and handouts in Stellenbosch in the WC. Happy now?
Actually no....

You missed way way more than that..

in 2010 7.5% of learners in SA where being taught in Zulu, and 5.9% in Xhosa.
https://www.education.gov.za/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=iY-R-gav688=&tabid=57&portalid=0&mid=2632

So there are significantly more than 1 school teaching Zulu and Xhosa.


Feel like back tracking on your assertion yet?
 

Sollie

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...

Let me play reversal on that in case you think I am just a racist or whatever snowflakes want to call logical thinkers. Go to some deep Afrikaner town where they can barely speak/read/write english even today and become some sort of elder in that town who can speak afrikaans and understand english proficiently. This Afrikaans elder have complete political power over the afrikaans only citizens in this town and more often than not would be seen as the wise elder of the town just based on his english proficiency.
...
English/Afrikaans/small town ... that could quite well have been me. However, you'd be surprised to learn that most of these people are quite proficient in English ... despite some rather awkward accents at times. Sorry to inform you, but what Herman Charles Bosman wrote is satire.
 

ɹǝuuᴉM

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