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He he he
Icasa may force Telkom to cut prices
August 2, 2005
By Renée Bonorchis
Johannesburg - Telkom, the listed telecommunications company, may be forced to drop its charges for high-speed internet access after the Independent Communications Authority of SA (Icasa) investigated a number of consumer complaints.
Icasa, which agreed with many of the charges levelled against Telkom, said it aimed to start making changes to regulations before the end of the month, but Xolisa Vapi, a senior media specialist at Telkom, said yesterday that the report was "unacceptable" and would be challenged.
Forty-six of the grievances referred to asymmetric digital subscriber line (ADSL). This technology, which is now available for homes and businesses, uses a modem and existing phone lines to offer multimedia and high-speed data communications.
Icasa found that "the practice adopted by Telkom to levy access charges and service charges is financially burdensome to the consumers and not in line with the practice in other international jurisdictions".
Icasa concluded that the charge for ADSL access should only be levied once - at the start of the service, like an installation fee - and thereafter charges should be restricted to line rental.
Philippa Davis, a consumer lobbyist who has worked for MyADSL, a group representing more than 5 000 users of the service, said yesterday that South Africa's telecommunications costs were 400 times more expensive than the international average.
In February this year, President Thabo Mbeki said Telkom's high charges were unacceptable.
But Vapi said Icasa's report was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Telkom's network design and Icasa had not applied its mind to the use of broadband services worldwide.
"ADSL services can't be free. It costs a lot to install and maintain. If they do away with some of the charges, Telkom may have to revisit its ADSL roll-out in South Africa," he said.
Icasa, with its price cap review, has already ensured that Telkom's charges will drop by a total of 3 percent by the beginning of next month.
Now there may be more price cutting and extra benefits, which would include a higher standard of throughput speeds for ADSL.
The regulator said it would recommend minimum speeds for these services.
Further, it said there should be no discrimination between users of ADSL services when it came to costs and priority, and Telkom should have clear service level agreements with its ADSL subscribers. Icasa pointed out that ADSL prices yesterday dropped in line with Telkom's tariff regime, which was published early last week.
Vapi said Icasa had listened to MyADSL, and even MyADSL's views had changed.
But Davis warned this was just the beginning of consumer action. "We are going to take them [Telkom] to pieces ... The next wave will focus on fixed-line services," she said.
Other issues raised with Icasa by consumers included the SAT3 cable, the undersea cable around Africa in which Telkom has a majority share. Consumers said access to this cable was "excessively expensive", but Icasa said Telkom refused to comment. Icasa aimed to continue its investigations and have an outcome before year-end.
Davis was not convinced Icasa's most recent report would lead to long-lasting changes to the regulations.
"Whether or not it comes into effect is another question because there is a nice, symbiotic relationship between the department of communications and Telkom. The department has shares in Telkom so it won't do anything to make the share price suffer. But it's exciting Icasa stood up and has shown what it can do," she said.
Telkom's share price dipped on Friday when Icasa first gazetted its findings, but rose R1 to R126.70 yesterday. The telecoms index gained 1.85 percent.
Icasa may force Telkom to cut prices
August 2, 2005
By Renée Bonorchis
Johannesburg - Telkom, the listed telecommunications company, may be forced to drop its charges for high-speed internet access after the Independent Communications Authority of SA (Icasa) investigated a number of consumer complaints.
Icasa, which agreed with many of the charges levelled against Telkom, said it aimed to start making changes to regulations before the end of the month, but Xolisa Vapi, a senior media specialist at Telkom, said yesterday that the report was "unacceptable" and would be challenged.
Forty-six of the grievances referred to asymmetric digital subscriber line (ADSL). This technology, which is now available for homes and businesses, uses a modem and existing phone lines to offer multimedia and high-speed data communications.
Icasa found that "the practice adopted by Telkom to levy access charges and service charges is financially burdensome to the consumers and not in line with the practice in other international jurisdictions".
Icasa concluded that the charge for ADSL access should only be levied once - at the start of the service, like an installation fee - and thereafter charges should be restricted to line rental.
Philippa Davis, a consumer lobbyist who has worked for MyADSL, a group representing more than 5 000 users of the service, said yesterday that South Africa's telecommunications costs were 400 times more expensive than the international average.
In February this year, President Thabo Mbeki said Telkom's high charges were unacceptable.
But Vapi said Icasa's report was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Telkom's network design and Icasa had not applied its mind to the use of broadband services worldwide.
"ADSL services can't be free. It costs a lot to install and maintain. If they do away with some of the charges, Telkom may have to revisit its ADSL roll-out in South Africa," he said.
Icasa, with its price cap review, has already ensured that Telkom's charges will drop by a total of 3 percent by the beginning of next month.
Now there may be more price cutting and extra benefits, which would include a higher standard of throughput speeds for ADSL.
The regulator said it would recommend minimum speeds for these services.
Further, it said there should be no discrimination between users of ADSL services when it came to costs and priority, and Telkom should have clear service level agreements with its ADSL subscribers. Icasa pointed out that ADSL prices yesterday dropped in line with Telkom's tariff regime, which was published early last week.
Vapi said Icasa had listened to MyADSL, and even MyADSL's views had changed.
But Davis warned this was just the beginning of consumer action. "We are going to take them [Telkom] to pieces ... The next wave will focus on fixed-line services," she said.
Other issues raised with Icasa by consumers included the SAT3 cable, the undersea cable around Africa in which Telkom has a majority share. Consumers said access to this cable was "excessively expensive", but Icasa said Telkom refused to comment. Icasa aimed to continue its investigations and have an outcome before year-end.
Davis was not convinced Icasa's most recent report would lead to long-lasting changes to the regulations.
"Whether or not it comes into effect is another question because there is a nice, symbiotic relationship between the department of communications and Telkom. The department has shares in Telkom so it won't do anything to make the share price suffer. But it's exciting Icasa stood up and has shown what it can do," she said.
Telkom's share price dipped on Friday when Icasa first gazetted its findings, but rose R1 to R126.70 yesterday. The telecoms index gained 1.85 percent.
Sneeky
Honorary Master
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- 12,129
Oh bollox, I posted the same thing, can someone sort it out (mine was from business report http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2813245 )
Sorry
Nice going. A question though, What the hell is Vapi on about when he says 'even MyAdsl views have changed'.
ciao
Sorry
Nice going. A question though, What the hell is Vapi on about when he says 'even MyAdsl views have changed'.
ciao
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we have to publically challenge every single comment that telkom make. Lets ask Vapi what he is referring to and for proof of this.Sneeky said:
They are also trying to intimate that we dont know what we are talking about/limited knowledge, so lets ask telkom for the knowledge. Lets ask them for their ADSL business model.
GO GO GO keep the pressure on.
Silent_Bob
Expert Member
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Yeah!
guest2013-1
guest
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wtf, they DO realise we have ex-telkom employees on this forum with more knowledge in their left nut than in their whole 10 man ADSL installation team...???
Open Letter : Will ask Business Report to Publish...work in progress
please feel free to add stuff you want me to challenge in this open letter to Xolisa Vapi (will send to the usual band of journo friends) to be published in as many newspapers letter sections as i can manage
Dear Mr Xolisa Vapi
As correspondence addressed directly to Telkom, through your published guidelines for communication, go largely ignored, unanswered or cast aside, we appeal to you here, in the spirit of transparency and open communication. Please could you validate your comments made in the press regarding the recently gazetted ICASA findings on your ADSL services?
We are particularly intrigued by your statement in the Business Report dated 2nd August 2005, where you were quoted as follows; "Vapi said Icasa had listened to MyADSL, and even MyADSL's views had changed." Could you please validate this statement for us? Our position has never changed. To date Telkom have declined to meet with MyADSL for purposes of any meaningful debate. Perhaps you could better illustrate to us how Telkom have listened, and how Telkom feel our position has changed?
You are quoted in an article in Moneyweb, date 1 August 2005 saying “ICASA has displayed a fundamental misunderstanding in network design. It appears the findings are based on reports by parties at the hearings, and ICASA did not apply its mind on how broadband is offered worldwide.” We are intrigued by this statement. To our knowledge, worldwide broadband trends are to provide ever cheaper, ever faster, ever more convergent technology as fast as possible. In fact in most cases, cheap, and in some cases free, fixed line telephony is included with international broadband services. Could we ask you please to validate this statement with factual evidence that ICASA have not acted with the due diligence that you allude to.
You stated "ADSL services can't be free. It costs a lot to install and maintain. If they do away with some of the charges, Telkom may have to revisit its ADSL roll-out in South Africa,”. We are amazed that a company that declared earnings of R186 a second in the last financial year could find installing, servicing and maintaining infrastructure financially unviable.
Nobody is asking for free ADSL services, but fair pricing for fair services. Are you threatening to stop rollout altogether if your pricing, delivery and service models continue to be challenged? Is this not a gross manipulation of your position as the only ADSL provider in the country? Is this not manipulating your position as a monopoly beyond the pale?
Could you possibly have been misunderstood and perhaps have meant to say that because Telkom's first priority is to it's shareholders, charging less, and spending more (ergo: lower revenues and higher operating cost) affects the P&L directly and therefore the share price and is therefore unacceptable to your shareholders, which alarmingly includes our own illustrious Department of Communications? It's a tenuous position to be in especially when Telkom bought back how many of its own shares last year? Perhaps you could refresh our memory on that point. Of course you don’t want the share price to wobble. Oh, and perhaps you care to explain how those bought back shares are held. Are they cancelled and out of circulation, are they held in Treasury, or are they owned in two off the shelf companies purchased just prior to the buyback? We would be most grateful if you could shed some light on these issues for us please.
Lastly, having the benefit of long and arduous dealings with Telkom for some time now, we do not anticipate that your formula for dealing with criticism is going to vary much from the norm. We anticipate that you will respond to the ICASA findings as follows;
You will state that the ICASA report is flawed. If you make this statement, then we ask you, now, publicly and for the benefit and education of the general public, to please prove these flaws on precise factual evidence.
You will state, that if your pricing is called into question, and restrictions imposed or legislation proposed, that you will stop rolling out broadband or have to change your rollout strategy. Hold on a second, you have already made that veiled threat haven't you?
You will state that ICASA doesn't have the technical expertise or the required knowledge to understand your network topology and layout. Again, you have already made allusions to this and therefore, we ask you to please prove this, on presented factual evidence. Explain to us, in layman’s terms how you justify yourselves.
You will state that Telkom are being unfairly isolated and targeted. You will ask why other broadband service providers weren’t investigated. And we will respond by reminding you that as Telkom control the Internet pipe, there are in effect, no other broadband service providers, all roads lead to Telkom in one way shape form or another.
You will appeal for public support by stating that ADSL pricing will continue to lower as more people subscribe to ADSL. You will argue that Telkom prices aren't as expensive as everybody makes them out to be. And we will counter this by asking you to then prove it, based on factual evidence showing comparative prices. Prove that you are competitive internationally; we all know there is no local competition in the ADSL, broadband over copper arena.
Telkom have changed their position so many times Mr Vapi. Your own Steven White, head of ADSL implementation I believe, has changed his position on product delivery, service delivery and pricing so many times it is hard to keep up with the latest justification.
In the spirit of transparency, let me advise you of this. Our next complaint to ICASA is already in preparation. In it we seek to have legislation passed that forces Telkom to un-bundle the local loop. This will enable South African ISP's to follow the global trend of including low cost fixed line telephony as part of their service package to their broadband customers.
To us this is progress, world class, affordable and accessible telecommunications. To President Mbeki, this will meet his vision of an information nation. To the people of South Africa it will mean that you as a monopoly can no longer hold us to ransom. To the economy; VIVA. This, Mr Vapi, is Proudly South African in action.
Yours very sincerely
Philippa Davis, member of MyADSL
mods, please advise here, i dont think i am on thin ice but i will leave it at your discretion to edit as you see fit.....
please feel free to add stuff you want me to challenge in this open letter to Xolisa Vapi (will send to the usual band of journo friends) to be published in as many newspapers letter sections as i can manage
Dear Mr Xolisa Vapi
As correspondence addressed directly to Telkom, through your published guidelines for communication, go largely ignored, unanswered or cast aside, we appeal to you here, in the spirit of transparency and open communication. Please could you validate your comments made in the press regarding the recently gazetted ICASA findings on your ADSL services?
We are particularly intrigued by your statement in the Business Report dated 2nd August 2005, where you were quoted as follows; "Vapi said Icasa had listened to MyADSL, and even MyADSL's views had changed." Could you please validate this statement for us? Our position has never changed. To date Telkom have declined to meet with MyADSL for purposes of any meaningful debate. Perhaps you could better illustrate to us how Telkom have listened, and how Telkom feel our position has changed?
You are quoted in an article in Moneyweb, date 1 August 2005 saying “ICASA has displayed a fundamental misunderstanding in network design. It appears the findings are based on reports by parties at the hearings, and ICASA did not apply its mind on how broadband is offered worldwide.” We are intrigued by this statement. To our knowledge, worldwide broadband trends are to provide ever cheaper, ever faster, ever more convergent technology as fast as possible. In fact in most cases, cheap, and in some cases free, fixed line telephony is included with international broadband services. Could we ask you please to validate this statement with factual evidence that ICASA have not acted with the due diligence that you allude to.
You stated "ADSL services can't be free. It costs a lot to install and maintain. If they do away with some of the charges, Telkom may have to revisit its ADSL roll-out in South Africa,”. We are amazed that a company that declared earnings of R186 a second in the last financial year could find installing, servicing and maintaining infrastructure financially unviable.
Nobody is asking for free ADSL services, but fair pricing for fair services. Are you threatening to stop rollout altogether if your pricing, delivery and service models continue to be challenged? Is this not a gross manipulation of your position as the only ADSL provider in the country? Is this not manipulating your position as a monopoly beyond the pale?
Could you possibly have been misunderstood and perhaps have meant to say that because Telkom's first priority is to it's shareholders, charging less, and spending more (ergo: lower revenues and higher operating cost) affects the P&L directly and therefore the share price and is therefore unacceptable to your shareholders, which alarmingly includes our own illustrious Department of Communications? It's a tenuous position to be in especially when Telkom bought back how many of its own shares last year? Perhaps you could refresh our memory on that point. Of course you don’t want the share price to wobble. Oh, and perhaps you care to explain how those bought back shares are held. Are they cancelled and out of circulation, are they held in Treasury, or are they owned in two off the shelf companies purchased just prior to the buyback? We would be most grateful if you could shed some light on these issues for us please.
Lastly, having the benefit of long and arduous dealings with Telkom for some time now, we do not anticipate that your formula for dealing with criticism is going to vary much from the norm. We anticipate that you will respond to the ICASA findings as follows;
You will state that the ICASA report is flawed. If you make this statement, then we ask you, now, publicly and for the benefit and education of the general public, to please prove these flaws on precise factual evidence.
You will state, that if your pricing is called into question, and restrictions imposed or legislation proposed, that you will stop rolling out broadband or have to change your rollout strategy. Hold on a second, you have already made that veiled threat haven't you?
You will state that ICASA doesn't have the technical expertise or the required knowledge to understand your network topology and layout. Again, you have already made allusions to this and therefore, we ask you to please prove this, on presented factual evidence. Explain to us, in layman’s terms how you justify yourselves.
You will state that Telkom are being unfairly isolated and targeted. You will ask why other broadband service providers weren’t investigated. And we will respond by reminding you that as Telkom control the Internet pipe, there are in effect, no other broadband service providers, all roads lead to Telkom in one way shape form or another.
You will appeal for public support by stating that ADSL pricing will continue to lower as more people subscribe to ADSL. You will argue that Telkom prices aren't as expensive as everybody makes them out to be. And we will counter this by asking you to then prove it, based on factual evidence showing comparative prices. Prove that you are competitive internationally; we all know there is no local competition in the ADSL, broadband over copper arena.
Telkom have changed their position so many times Mr Vapi. Your own Steven White, head of ADSL implementation I believe, has changed his position on product delivery, service delivery and pricing so many times it is hard to keep up with the latest justification.
In the spirit of transparency, let me advise you of this. Our next complaint to ICASA is already in preparation. In it we seek to have legislation passed that forces Telkom to un-bundle the local loop. This will enable South African ISP's to follow the global trend of including low cost fixed line telephony as part of their service package to their broadband customers.
To us this is progress, world class, affordable and accessible telecommunications. To President Mbeki, this will meet his vision of an information nation. To the people of South Africa it will mean that you as a monopoly can no longer hold us to ransom. To the economy; VIVA. This, Mr Vapi, is Proudly South African in action.
Yours very sincerely
Philippa Davis, member of MyADSL
mods, please advise here, i dont think i am on thin ice but i will leave it at your discretion to edit as you see fit.....
Last edited:
The_Right_Honourable_Brit
High Tory
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- Mar 6, 2004
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- 41,694
Well done Peapod! 
Sneeky
Honorary Master
- Joined
- May 5, 2004
- Messages
- 12,129
If they cant do it cheaper then we must get someone that can do it. Stop the rollout of dsl and that will be a spanner in the economic works of this country.
Telkom have far to many chiefs, not enough indians, and are hopelessly inefficient as their pricing reflects, or alternatively, they are just raping the SA public, there is no middle ground.
Doges
Senior Member
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- May 27, 2005
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- 547
Peapod said:
Translated:
Icasa as well as our clients are a bunch of idiots that do not understand the way the gravy train works. They are stupid and cannot see that worldwide ADSL is used by telecoms providers to generate obsene profits to the detriment of growth in the country they operate.....
Don't you just hate it when someone as clueless as Mr V just assumes that everyone else is as stupid, or even more stupid than himself?
LoneGunman
Expert Member
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- Sep 23, 2003
- Messages
- 4,552
peapod - add the word 'year' after the word 'financial' in the sentence:
"Secondly, we are amazed that a company that declared earnings of R186 a second in the last financial could find installing, servicing and.."
in same paragraph, fix the word 'manipulatoin' (think u meant 'manipulation')
perhaps adding a ':' after 'ergo'
"Secondly, we are amazed that a company that declared earnings of R186 a second in the last financial could find installing, servicing and.."
in same paragraph, fix the word 'manipulatoin' (think u meant 'manipulation')
perhaps adding a ':' after 'ergo'
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2003
- Messages
- 66,740
Hi folks
Mr. Vapi must watch what he says... He has already messed up with his statement regarding ICASA (that they have released the report while it was actually us), and now he continues with this nonsense. Give them enough rope I guess
Regards,
RPM
Mr. Vapi must watch what he says... He has already messed up with his statement regarding ICASA (that they have released the report while it was actually us), and now he continues with this nonsense. Give them enough rope I guess
Regards,
RPM
rpm said:Hi folks
Mr. Vapi must watch what he says... He has already messed up with his statement regarding ICASA (that they have released the report while it was actually us), and now he continues with this nonsense. Give them enough rope I guess
Regards,
RPM
RPM I think this needs to be documented, the next time myadsl faces Telkom they need to have a history of TELKOM lying to the public, it will strengthen our case. Also perhaps a poll to prove Mr Vapi wrong?
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I DO KNOW, a lot about their network and the equipment they use, for obvious reasons.
you know, it's very hard for me because I want to stick this to Telkom but I can't, not because I don't want to, trust me I'd love to take the first swing at them, but I can't because in SA there's no legal protection of people who complain