Peter de Villiers, Yay or Nah?

[sand_man]

Hasn't this been true of every Bok coach in history?

We're a pretty unforgiving nation.

agreed, except it seems, of Mickey Arthur. Despite his inability to win any major tournament of any significance he continues to the post of national coach.

It could be argued that he has a squad of players which should be dominating world cricket to the same extinct as their rugby counterparts...

 

[Syndyre]

Syndyre, as requested you have given me the views of why someone would be opposed to PdVs appointment. I accept this but still cannot see how his performances have not now silenced his critics. He may have been a "political choice" but he has shown that he is more than capable.

Personally I don't care that much, I do think merit should be the only criterion as I've said before but he seems to have done well.

 

[rebel998]

cannot see how his performances have not now silenced his critics. He may have been a "political choice" but he has shown that he is more than capable.

Because we're full of it when it comes to rugby. Look at the way Nick Mallet was treated.

The fact that he was a political choice means that some will never accept him regardless of how he performs.

Damn, I hate it when sports and politics mix!

 

[sand_man]

I think there were a few reasons why PDv was so resented once appointed as the new coach.

1st off and most telling must have been the fact that he was replacing a winning world cup coach, for the most part a very popular coach, who had resigned under less than transparent circumstances. Who ever was to replace Jake was going to have a tough time of it, filling Jakes shoes, barring the brunt of public opinion...

2nd, Heyneke Meyer was touted as the next Bok coach, in fact is was so widely accepted that he would be that Ludeke had been employed by the Bulls as coach long before the announcement was made. Heyneke again, was a relatively popular choice and many peoples favourite..

 

[I am Penguin]

Syndyre, as requested you have given me the views of why someone would be opposed to PdVs appointment. I accept this but still cannot see how his performances have not now silenced his critics. He may have been a "political choice" but he has shown that he is more than capable.

More than capable of been accepted as a good "manager" but yet has to prove he is such a good coach, he is on the right track maybe but allas we will see in future how he performs toward and during the WC. Indicators are looking good but it has to be remembered that even his own team players and Captain rate him as well as a good "coach" (as in title) but not technically as good as Jake White.

We stated that categorically but You keep on insisting otherwise as it seems you are fishing as usual for alterior motives to suit your own agenda.

 

[Milano]

It is really silly to be active in a sports forum in a rugby-mad country like SA and pretend to have no idea why deVil has his detractors. All recent coaches have had their detractors and even more so when you mix politics and sport. It is a no-brainer. Let the people be. It is futile, inane and immature to try and convert every single person into a deVil fan.

 

[sand_man]

More than capable of been accepted as a good "manager" but yet has to prove he is such a good coach, he is on the right track maybe but allas we will see in future how he performs toward and during the WC. Indicators are looking good but it has to be remembered that even his own team players and Captain rate him as well as a good "coach" (as in title) but not technically as good as Jake White.

I reckon winning this new tri-nations series is harder than winning a world cup. Think about it. You playing the worlds top 2 teams 6 X!!!! World cup you'll pay 6 matches including the final if you get that far but 3 games would be in your pool against Samoa, Spain and the like, maybe a Australia or England or Scotland, then quarters, semi and finals....

Again you emphasize his lack of technical prowess in relation to Jake. Jake is technically a rugby genius. Henry, Deans, Woodward they most lightly all technically inferior to Jake, it's a mute point IMO..

 

[sand_man]

It is really silly to be active in a sports forum in a rugby-mad country like SA and pretend to have no idea why deVil has his detractors. All recent coaches have had their detractors and even more so when you mix politics and sport. It is a no-brainer. Let the people be. It is futile, inane and immature to try and convert every single person into a deVil fan.

I think it's futile, inane and immature not to judge people based on their achievements...

We looking for a hundred reasons and excuses why not to credit PDv, he says the wrong things on tv, he's been caught in the parking lot with a prossie, he's a BEE appointment, he stands by and defends an eye gouging rugby player, he selects players out of position, he's technically inept etc etc etc

 

[I am Penguin]

I reckon winning this new tri-nations series is harder than winning a world cup. Think about it. You playing the worlds top 2 teams 6 X!!!! World cup you'll pay 6 matches including the final if you get that far but 3 games would be in your pool against Samoa, Spain and the like, maybe a Australia or England or Scotland, then quarters, semi and finals....

Again you emphasize his lack of technical prowess in relation to Jake. Jake is technically a rugby genius. Henry, Deans, Woodward they most lightly all technically inferior to Jake, it's a mute point IMO..

Thanks for confirming that, Now the question begs why is JW then not our coach?

Well for a mute point we than have to ask Who? is coaching the Boks, John Smith? Just asking seeming it is such a moot point that Captain Smith had to mention the fact.

Looking at his decisions in bringing on replacements, (thank goodness Yesterday he did it just too late) Do you think he is clever!

Anyway we won, I gained more respect for PDV as manager based on what this debate shown me and as true "coach" we wait and look forward to the world cup if PDV still exists by then as coach.

 

[sand_man]

Anyway we won, I gained more respect for PDV as manager based on what this debate shown me and as true "coach" we wait and look forward to the world cup if PDV still exists by then as coach.

Look, PDv coached World cup winning U21's sides in 2005, 3rd in 2004 and 2nd in 2006. I don't see how a man can go through his entire career as a rugby coach without the technical prowess to fulfill his obligations and job description effectively...

Anyway, I don't feel I need to defend the man on the this forum any longer, his impeccable record speaks volumes...

 

[sand_man]

Thanks for confirming that, Now the question begs why is JW then not our coach?

South African rugby's greatest opposition is not NZ, it's SARU!!! They've alienated just about every great exponent of South African rugby, Louis Luyt in his era and those that proceeded him including the current regime...

Mallet, MAC, Markgraff, White and ultimately PDv...

 

[killadoob]

I reckon winning this new tri-nations series is harder than winning a world cup. Think about it. You playing the worlds top 2 teams 6 X!!!! World cup you'll pay 6 matches including the final if you get that far but 3 games would be in your pool against Samoa, Spain and the like, maybe a Australia or England or Scotland, then quarters, semi and finals....

Again you emphasize his lack of technical prowess in relation to Jake. Jake is technically a rugby genius. Henry, Deans, Woodward they most lightly all technically inferior to Jake, it's a mute point IMO..

Winning the tri nations in my book is better than winning the world cup i reckon as well.

I mean look at the last world cup we won, we beat such easy teams and at times made it look hard. We have won 5 games in the tri nations against 2 of the worlds best teams. HTF does jake winning an easy world cup compare to winning 5 tri nations games out six? Winning 2 away games in the tri nations is pretty much unheard of in SA.

Did jake white win a tri nations? I am sure we may have even finished last in a couple tri nations under him.

 

[semiautomatix]

I reckon winning this new tri-nations series is harder than winning a world cup. Think about it. You playing the worlds top 2 teams 6 X!!!! World cup you'll pay 6 matches including the final if you get that far but 3 games would be in your pool against Samoa, Spain and the like, maybe a Australia or England or Scotland, then quarters, semi and finals....

Again you emphasize his lack of technical prowess in relation to Jake. Jake is technically a rugby genius. Henry, Deans, Woodward they most lightly all technically inferior to Jake, it's a mute point IMO..

Ah, but you do forget the knock out phase. Unlike the Trinations there are no second chances, which does make it more difficult in that if you have a bad day "you're out". As such you have to be on the top of your game for every match, had we had a "SunCorp day" in a knock out we wouldn't be taking home the silverware.

 

[killadoob]

Well tim it is not easy to have a bad day against weak teams it is?

Although the all blacks make it look very possible . You say you get a second chance in the tri nations which is a fair comment but we won 5 games out of six in the tri nations dude, we never needed a second chance in all honesty.

 

[sand_man]

Ah, but you do forget the knock out phase. Unlike the Trinations there are no second chances, which does make it more difficult in that if you have a bad day "you're out". As such you have to be on the top of your game for every match, had we had a "SunCorp day" in a knock out we wouldn't be taking home the silverware.

100%, but OZ's fixture against us in Perth was their ''win or exit the running fixture'' so those fixtures also exist in tri-nations but I take your point on the world cup...

On another note not sure if you guys have heard Fourie has been banned for his tackle on Nonu, 4 weeks!!!!!

Never mind Kieran Read's shoulder charge on Habana or Sivivatu tackling the self same Habana while he was in the air fielding an up and under, those where not deemed citeable or dangerous but Fourie with his impeccably clean record gets a 4 week ban!!!! U n- f u c k i n g believable!!!!

 

[Cantera]

How can people still not give credit to PDV. Still people insult his coaching ability, persisting to not notice him as a good coach rather a good manager. WTF!?

The man just won us the Tri Nations!! he is the one coaching the team, he the one who makes the decisions on how the Boks play.

I feel Smit's comments when he was merely saying how technical JW is as a coach is being blown out of proportion. He never intended that PDV is not technical. He was merely giving his former coach a compliment.

 

[Milano]

I think it's futile, inane and immature not to judge people based on their achievements...

We looking for a hundred reasons and excuses why not to credit PDv, he says the wrong things on tv, he's been caught in the parking lot with a prossie, he's a BEE appointment, he stands by and defends an eye gouging rugby player, he selects players out of position, he's technically inept etc etc etc

No, my only point is that this is not unique to deVil. You find me a president, an actor, a rugby player, or any sportsman, or any coach, or any person with a 100% approval rating. It doesn't exist. Why are a few of you getting your knickers all knotted up about deVil?

 

[Creag]

I have decided to retract any previous derogatory comments about PDV.

Yesterday I listened to a wonderful summary of PDV on 702 by David O Sullivan. He described the manner in which he has managed the team and made the team comfortable as players for the team.

It was said of PDV that he cannot coach or teach the Boks anything they don't already know. He can only make them comfortable and manage them.

If that's all he did, I think he's been extremely successful. Nice one, PDV!

 

[HypoThesis]

Jake White: Win% : 67% (away win% of 39%)
Peter de Villiers: Win% : 77% (away win% of 67%)
Nick Mallet: Win%: 71% (away win% of 61%)

Granted White has the highest number of tests coached and he and Mallet inherited some kark teams but I think that is why they are so loved, they took us from the abyss to winning again. I think it's harder for PdV because we have tasted success and the only way to go from there is down...which hasn't happened. I also think people forget just how White was also a villain more times than not. All of a sudden the man wins a World Cup and he becomes a demi-god. We South African's are a very fickle bunch.

Politics and bitterness over his appointment aside, PdV must be applauded. Yeah sure most of the team played under White...but that is now nearly 2 years ago. As we've seen with many rugby teams, merely having stars in your team doesn't mean you will perform.

SA is number 1 in the world. Holds every rugby trophy available to us and will probably win Team of the Year and Player of the Year and Coach of the Year at the IRB awards and yet we still bitch and moan. *sigh*

 

[semiautomatix]

Jake White: Win% : 67% (away win% of 39%)
Peter de Villiers: Win% : 77% (away win% of 67%)
Nick Mallet: Win%: 71% (away win% of 61%)

Granted White has the highest number of tests coached and he and Mallet inherited some kark teams but I think that is why they are so loved, they took us from the abyss to winning again. I think it's harder for PdV because we have tasted success and the only way to go from there is down...which hasn't happened. I also think people forget just how White was also a villain more times than not. All of a sudden the man wins a World Cup and he becomes a demi-god. We South African's are a very fickle bunch.

Politics and bitterness over his appointment aside, PdV must be applauded. Yeah sure most of the team played under White...but that is now nearly 2 years ago. As we've seen with many rugby teams, merely having stars in your team doesn't mean you will perform.

SA is number 1 in the world. Holds every rugby trophy available to us and will probably win Team of the Year and Player of the Year and Coach of the Year at the IRB awards and yet we still bitch and moan. *sigh*

Kitch Christie: Win% : 100% (away win% of 100%)