Peter de Villiers, Yay or Nah?

[sand_man]

I will give Kitch credit for his record being exceptional, however, I do tend to agree that it is probably easier to achieve that in an amateur era than in the professional era. Back then you would pitch up on the day and play the game. Yes, there was obviously some video analysis etc but I'm almost certain it would not have been as extensive as it is now in the modern era.

But all teams would have been benefiting equally (or in this case not) from the limited technology available at the time. It wouldn't have made it easier or harder to win, the limited resources...

I don't know how that's pertinent...

Further to this if we look at Christie's record in more detail we see that of his 14 games in charge only four of those were away games and none of those were against NZ or Aus in their backyards. They were Scotland, Wales, Italy and England. At the time only the latter could probably have been regarded as a tough one.

I agree but the pressure to perform in the 95 world cup would have been immense!!! That he won it was nothing short of miraculous!!!

 

[LancelotSA]

Never knew those were the teams that made up Kitch's 14 wins.

That record means less to me now knowing that he played lesser teams.

Here's his record :

Sat, 08 Oct 1994	TO	 	SAF v ARG	42-22		Boet Erasmus, Pt Elizabeth	H
Sat, 15 Oct 1994	TO		SAF v ARG	46-26		Ellis Park, Johannesburg	H
Sat, 19 Nov 1994	AI		SAF v SCO	34-10		Murrayfield, Edinburgh	A
Sat, 26 Nov 1994	AI		SAF v WAL	20-12		Cardiff Arms Park	A
Thu, 13 Apr 1995	WU		SAF v SAM	60-8		Ellis Park, Johannesburg	H
Thu, 25 May 1995	WC		SAF v AUS	27-18		Newlands, Cape Town	H
Tue, 30 May 1995	WC		SAF v ROM	21-8		Newlands, Cape Town	H
Sat, 03 Jun 1995	WC		SAF v CAN	20-0		Boet Erasmus, Pt Elizabeth	H
Sat, 10 Jun 1995	WC	 	SAF v SAM	42-14		Ellis Park, Johannesburg	H
Sat, 17 Jun 1995	WC	 	SAF v FRA	19-15		Kings Park Stadium, Durban	H
Sat, 24 Jun 1995	WC	 	SAF v NZL	15-12		Ellis Park, Johannesburg	H
Sat, 02 Sep 1995	ST		SAF v WAL	40-11		Ellis Park, Johannesburg	H
Sun, 12 Nov 1995	AI		SAF v ITA	40-21		Olympic Stadium, Rome	A
Sat, 18 Nov 1995	AI		SAF v ENG	24-14		Twickenham, London	A

 

[sand_man]

I don't see Mallet in the same light because of the whole Gary Teichmann incident.

Perhaps the only blot on an exceptional run... For me Mallet was/is/has been the greatest coach ever to coach the Boks..

 

[semiautomatix]

But all teams would have been benefiting equally (or in this case not) from the limited technology available at the time. It wouldn't have made it easier or harder to win, the limited resources...

I don't know how that's pertinent...

I agree but the pressure to perform in the 95 world cup would have been immense!!! That he won it was nothing short of miraculous!!!

And he did, unfortunately, not have the time to play New Zealand and Australia in the antipodes. But the 95 final is what he will be most remembered for. There is a little anecdote that almost makes me cry:

Christie's final game in charge of the Springboks was a victory over England at Twickenham on a short tour in November 1995. By this time, his health had deteriorated from leukemia, which he had been battling since 1979. Francois Pienaar, in his autobiography, recalled how Christie joined the team huddle and stood between Pienaar and James Dalton. "The usual end to such a Springboks huddle is for the players to squeeze each other and shout 'Bokke'," said Pienaar. "James and I squeezed the coach and discovered later we'd fractured two of his ribs. He never said a word."

 

[sand_man]

Very sad....

 

[semiautomatix]

Perhaps the only blot on an exceptional run... For me Mallet was/is/has been the greatest coach ever to coach the Boks..

I would tend to agree. But maybe Div will do better, as I said he's still on probation

 

[LancelotSA]

Perhaps the only blot on an exceptional run... For me Mallet was/is/has been the greatest coach ever to coach the Boks..

And yet he never won us a world cup, which needs to be noted by those who think PdV will only be able to prove himself by winning a world cup...

 

[semiautomatix]

And yet he never won us a world cup, which needs to be noted by those who think PdV will only be able to prove himself by winning a world cup...

How about I give you 17 in a row or a World Cup? There. Go!

 

[sand_man]

I would tend to agree. But maybe Div will do better, as I said he's still on probation

haha, you a tough okie to convince!!!

I tell you what I like him!!!! It's his very lack of PC, the very reason he was appointed, that makes me like him even more!!! It's so ironic, he says the most moronic things in the most moronic voice, he stands by his eye gouging flanks and he nearly got caught with his pants down in the parking lot with a prossie, what's there not to like about this okie??!!!!

British series win, tri-nations win, world no 1 ranking, he's a ducking legend in the making...

I know a lot has been said about him inheriting Jakes boys but consider this. PDv coached U21's for 3 seasons and once you 22 you not legible for U21's so he would have essentially coached a different group of players over 3 seasons, 3rd place, 1st place and 2nd place achieved in the 3 world cups 2004-2006. That's no mean feat...

 

[LancelotSA]

How about I give you 17 in a row or a World Cup? There. Go!

Not sure 17 in a row will be done by any team again to tell you the truth...

How about you give me PdV maintaining a win record (72.7%) as good, in fact better, than Mallett (71.1%), and in the professional era to boot!

And it must have been the team Mallet inherited from Carel du Plessis as it was his first 17 games in charge that he won... his record deteriorated down from 100% after this!

 

[sand_man]

And yet he never won us a world cup, which needs to be noted by those who think PdV will only be able to prove himself by winning a world cup...

haha quite right!!!! I thought the Boks were magnificent in 99 though!!!! De Beers drop goals to sink England, taking OZ into extra time only to lose to a drop goal from Larkham!!!! All the drama!!! Beating NZ in the 3rd 4th place play-offs. We had a tough draw in 99 and no skipper (Gary) yet we come so very close.

Had we beaten OZ and we so nearly did we would have destroyed France in the finals... No one beats SA in a final...

You remember the end of year tour in 97 when mallet 1st took over, won every game by record margins!!!! The french crowd stood and applauded the Boks after the 52-10 drubbing we gave their national team!!!! It was epic, undefeated in tri-nations 98!!!! Mallet I rate!!!! Boy do I rate!!!!

 

[LancelotSA]

But all teams would have been benefiting equally (or in this case not) from the limited technology available at the time. It wouldn't have made it easier or harder to win, the limited resources...

I don't know how that's pertinent...

It is pertinent as in the modern era you need to change your game plan from week to week as the opposition spend hours analysing every move from the previous match you played. Yes, all teams had the same limitations in the 90s but if you had a good team and a good game plan it would take longer for the opposition to "crack" that game plan. Now you need to be on your game constantly. Look at the All Blacks, I'm sure it was them, complaining about us spying on their training session as we seemed to know all their lineout calls.

 

[LancelotSA]

You remember the end of year tour in 97 when mallet 1st took over, won every game by record margins!!!!

Carel du Plessis' team?

 

[sand_man]

Carel du Plessis' team?

Huh? He inherited Du Plessis team? That what you saying?

 

[LancelotSA]

Huh? He inherited Du Plessis team? That what you saying?

Ha ha yeah I am being saracastic. PdV is apparently only winning because he inherited White's team. So perhaps Du Plessis groomed the players and then Mallett took over and got all the glory with 17 immediate wins in a row!

And guys don't bother checking what the actual make up of the teams were. I am just taking the piss

 

[Morgoth]

I actually remember Mallet more for his "ek ry ek bly' cartoons, it happened the same time as those 2 South Africans who were stuck on that Philippians island after their honey moon. Cartoons were legendary

 

[sand_man]

thought as much, you a lot more amiable now that penguin and milano are on your ignore list. I don't know why you didn't do it sooner!!!

 

[semiautomatix]

Ha ha yeah I am being saracastic. PdV is apparently only winning because he inherited White's team. So perhaps Du Plessis groomed the players and then Mallett took over and got all the glory with 17 immediate wins in a row!

And guys don't bother checking what the actual make up of the teams were. I am just taking the piss

The difference is in this instance Mallet is White, taking a losing team and turning it into one of the best outfits in history. The current Boks were already winning when Div took over. So your sarcasm is a bit misplaced.

 

[LancelotSA]

The difference is in this instance Mallet is White, taking a losing team and turning it into one of the best outfits in history. The current Boks were already winning when Div took over. So your sarcasm is a bit misplaced.

It seems some people just don't bother reading....

And guys don't bother checking what the actual make up of the teams were. I am just taking the piss

 

[Cantera]

The difference is in this instance Mallet is White, taking a losing team and turning it into one of the best outfits in history. The current Boks were already winning when Div took over. So your sarcasm is a bit misplaced.

White's team wasnt one of the best outfits in history. In fact, i wasnt even too sure we would have won the WC.

This current team - when they play i feel much more confident than what i did when White's ''team'' played.

White had some dodgy games. You never really knew if we would win. Under PDV i feel we WILL win cos as it was shown this season, we really WIPPED the All blacks and the Wallabies.

I never had that confident feeling under White.