Peter de Villiers, Yay or Nah?

[I am Penguin]

Defo

http://www.irb.com/home/totalrugbytv/newsid=2033117.html?cid=rssfeed&att=

Jake White: Assessing the Springboks

“Let’s not take away anything from the fact that we are sitting with a very, very special group of players, but I also think that they’ve been around for a while and the one thing about the Springboks is that they can win a test match without the ball and that’s the one thing that they must never be embarrassed about.

“We have the best defensive game in the world, we don’t play a certain style because it doesn’t suit the way we grew up and I think what this group of players has worked out is that it doesn’t have to be flashy. The bottom line is it’s about winning test matches and they do it as well as any other team in the world does with the talents they’ve been given.

“I think the supporters themselves have now realised that we might not score three or four or five tries a game, but the reality is at the end of the day we play to our strengths and we do it as well as we can.”

 

[I am Penguin]

That is not what I'm saying. I am saying PdV made him a Bok not so? Am I wrong?

Openside flanker, Heinrich Brussow..

“To be fair he has been a revelation. He has shown to a lot of people that he has batted above his weight. He’s a little guy - you know my feelings, that I think the big good ones are always better than the little good ones – but I think in this make-up of this team he’s added a new dimension.

“I think the one thing that has changed is that we used to go past the ball and just slow the ball up and, because a guy like Schalk Burger, for argument’s sake, is so big and strong it takes about two or three players to move him out of the way and therefore he could slow up the opposition ball, whereas Brussouw is really quick in turning the ball over and almost in one action picking it up and diving backwards to place for the scrum half.

“Probably in the Springbok set up it’s given them quicker ball, the turn-over ball gives the defence less time to re-align. A guy like Fourie du Preez, who has been massive for the Springboks in terms of being the best scrum-half in the world, reads it as quickly as it comes out and then makes the right decision so, I think the whole new dimension of Heinrich Brussouw winning the ball and turning it over as quickly as he does, allows Fourie to make a decision.

“The opposition have also got a load more people into the breakdown to win the ball. For a long time the All Blacks have got away with having maybe just two or three guys and getting quick ball going forward. Now all of a sudden they’ve got to put four or five guys in to make sure they win it and when they do win that ball, then they have less numbers at the second, third or fourth ruck, so Heinrich’s obviously done a massive role in making sure that they (the opposition) don’t just get ball going forward. They’ve got a lot more homework to do in terms of who goes into those rucks.

From the horses mouth. A technicall review?

 

[Pitbull]

From the horses mouth. A technicall review?

Correct. Under Jake White Brusso would never have been given a chance. I love th elittle dude and can't wait to see more of him. +1 to PvD and his squad for giving this little gem a chance. Now he even has Jake White changing his view slightly about size ...

 

[Cantera]

That is not what I'm saying. I am saying PdV made him a Bok not so? Am I wrong?

You have it TOTALLY wrong. Forgive me while i use football as a comparison.

Take the Worlds best player Lionel Messi for example. Frank Rijkaard gave Messi his first team start when he was only 18.

Every interview Messi gives when asked about his coaches - he always credits Rijkaard for giving him that start in the senior team.

Will Rijkaard be credited for Messi's success? Of course not. After Rijkaard, he had other coaches who made him an even better footballer.

Same goes for Brussow. PDV might have given him the opportunity, but down his long rugby career, he will meet other coaches who will define his ability even more.

Same goes for the cuurent Bok squad - they might have played under Jake White for a while, but you cannot say that he is the reason why they are so talented. He merely guided them for a specific period of time. He never taught them how to play Rugby, he never made them talented players.

I know people always say, you shouldnt use football as an example. At the end of the day, sport is sport - and the same rules apply.

 

[I am Penguin]

Might I ask what you are refering to here? Could you maybe quote the text? I would really like to read it.

I will have to find it. The thread was deleted so i will have to search for the link again.

I cannot find the exact page but here is a reference to the same quote



http://www.keo.co.za/2009/07/12/smit-defends-de-villiers/

Here is the original text/interview

http://www.sarugby.com/news/News/article/sid=11862.html

 

[Pitbull]

You have it TOTALLY wrong. Forgive me while i use football as a comparison.

Take the Worlds best player Lionel Messi for example. Frank Rijkaard gave Messi his first team start when he was only 18.

Every interview Messi gives when asked about his coaches - he always credits Rijkaard for giving him that start in the senior team.

Will Rijkaard be credited for Messi's success? Of course not. After Rijkaard, he had other coaches who made him an even better footballer.

Same goes for Brussow. PDV might have given him the opportunity, but down his long rugby career, he will meet other coaches who will define his ability even more.

Same goes for the cuurent Bok squad - they might have played under Jake White for a while, but you cannot say that he is the reason why they are so talented. He merely guided them for a specific period of time. He never taught them how to play Rugby, he never made them talented players.

I know people always say, you shouldnt use football as an example. At the end of the day, sport is sport - and the same rules apply.

1. Footbal is not Rugby
2. a "First Test Cap" is the day a Player is fielded in a test match for the very first time to represent the Boks. He is then presented with a Traditional Cap (Springbok tradition) Now if You received your Cap from <insert coach here> It's just fair to give him credit for putting you there.

Now have a look at the current squad and tell me how many of those players are Jake White players?

I'm not saying this one coached that one and and and. We're talking about test caps and who gave that player said cap. If we had to argue that I would think the Dad's of all said players should be given medals

 

[I am Penguin]

Correct. Under Jake White Brusso would never have been given a chance. I love th elittle dude and can't wait to see more of him. +1 to PvD and his squad for giving this little gem a chance. Now he even has Jake White changing his view slightly about size ...

Nope, read between the lines, It works because of Fourie du preez, fast ball ==> time to think and make the play, thats the plus, but when Fourie had a semi "bad" game as we have seen (I think he was more injured/neutralized due to two headbuts) it meant nothing. I am a stearn believer in combinations of players. Like what the Oz have done with Gitau in the last game which neutralised the Brussow/Fourie combination. We know the results.

 

[Pitbull]

Nope, read between the lines, It works because of Fourie du preez, fast ball time to think and make the play, thats the plus, but when Fourie had a semi "bad" game as we have seen (I think he was more injured/neutralized due to two headbuts) it meant nothing. I am a stearn believer in combinations of players. Like what the Oz have done with Gitau in the last game which neutralised the Brussow/Fourie combination. We know the results.

Brusso is on his way to become a legend. Sure, you can't do shyt with the quick ball if you don't have a quick thinker. But Brusso is providing us with ball the Boks have never seen before. And They need to start coining from that advantage. I'm not saying someone like Joost would not have been able to do the same with such a quick ball. But quick ball puts the attackers on their back foot in such a turnover. There is only Pro's and no Con;s from getting such quick turnovers.

 

[Cantera]

1. Footbal is not Rugby
2. a "First Test Cap" is the day a Player is fielded in a test match for the very first time to represent the Boks. He is then presented with a Traditional Cap (Springbok tradition) Now if You received your Cap from <insert coach here> It's just fair to give him credit for putting you there.

Now have a look at the current squad and tell me how many of those players are Jake White players?

I'm not saying this one coached that one and and and. We're talking about test caps and who gave that player said cap. If we had to argue that I would think the Dad's of all said players should be given medals

Nevermind! You will never understand it.

I know football is not rugby. I was merely pointing out that if a coach gives a player a chance, that coach cannot take the creidt for that player - for the rest of his career.

 

[Pitbull]

Nevermind! You will never understand it.

I know football is not rugby. I was merely pointing out that if a coach gives a player a chance, that coach cannot take the creidt for that player - for the rest of his career.

Playing for a province and playing for your country is 2 different things.

I can tell you now that just about every other coach in SA would have overlooked Brusso. Jake White would never have even benched him. All credit for him being in the Bok team playing for his country is due to the PdV squad. No one else.

 

[I am Penguin]

Brusso is on his way to become a legend. Sure, you can't do shyt with the quick ball if you don't have a quick thinker. But Brusso is providing us with ball the Boks have never seen before. And They need to start coining from that advantage. I'm not saying someone like Joost would not have been able to do the same with such a quick ball. But quick ball puts the attackers on their back foot in such a turnover. There is only Pro's and no Con;s from getting such quick turnovers.

Yes, I agree and love Brussow for his performance but you have to look at your oponents and then decide how to approach the game. Talking of Joost, many games he was brilliant, I think it was with the Honnibal combo, just to fail later when the combo was broken.

 

[sand_man]

Seriously. I wish everyone would just give this time to settle and then make an educated assessment instead of an emotional one. We will only know in 2-3 years what kind of a coach he really is. I mean I hated Jake White 80% of the time he coached the squad. But looking back at it now, he was a good coach with his up's and down's. Let's give PdV the time to cement the reasons for the views he will get in 2-3 years.

PDV has already been in charge for just under 2 years. That in its self is a note worthy feat. Seldom does a coach last longer than 3 seasons in charge of the Boks. PDV's into his 2nd season...

 

[APoc184]

I can tell you now that just about every other coach in SA would have overlooked Brusso. Jake White would never have even benched him. All credit for him being in the Bok team playing for his country is due to the PdV squad. No one else.

Pdv also overlooked or decided not to include him in the initial squad. In fact he was not even being considered until a injury "forced" him to call Brussow up.
It was then that Brussow showed Pdv and the rest of the world how effective he is in disrupting the opposition ball and turning over possession.
He brought balance to the loose trio.

Well done for Pdv for then sticking with Brussow and not just dropping him when Schalk returned from his suspension.

Even Brussow had a mediocre game on Saturday.

 

[Pitbull]

Pdv also overlooked or decided not to include him in the initial squad. In fact he was not even being considered until a injury "forced" him to call Brussow up.
It was then that Brussow showed Pdv and the rest of the world how effective he is in disrupting the opposition ball and turning over possession.
He brought balance to the loose trio.

Well done for Pdv for then sticking with Brussow and not just dropping him when Schalk returned from his suspension.

Even Brussow had a mediocre game on Saturday.

True.

It's very easy to look like second rate players if you are on the back foot from the start It really was a crap game. Let's just hope they pick their heads up and come back fighting harder than ever

 

[APoc184]

True.

It's very easy to look like second rate players if you are on the back foot from the start It really was a crap game. Let's just hope they pick their heads up and come back fighting harder than ever

Yes. One of our biggest problems was that we didn't commit enough numbers to the breakdown. The countered Brussow very good.

I am sure we will come back fighting very with all we've got on Saturday.

on a side note.

Why is it that coaches/players never change the game plan when they see the current approach is not working.
And this is not a problem only with PDV. It includes Robbie Deans, Graham Henry and even Jake White.

Surely the players are professional enough to be able to adapt and change their approach.
When you see the running game is not working, why not go back to one of your strengths. Bash it up with the forwards. Get in their 22, get a penalty and take the 3 points. Repeat.

I know you practice a certain game plan the whole week, but surely you didn't forget what you practiced last week?

As a captain I would say: "Guys, this is not working, lets start playing tighter and work our way into point scoring positions. If that doesn't work. We are fcked!!!"

 

[Cantera]

Yes. One of our biggest problems was that we didn't commit enough numbers to the breakdown. The countered Brussow very good.

I am sure we will come back fighting very with all we've got on Saturday.

on a side note.

Why is it that coaches/players never change the game plan when they see the current approach is not working.
And this is not a problem only with PDV. It includes Robbie Deans, Graham Henry and even Jake White.

Surely the players are professional enough to be able to adapt and change their approach.
When you see the running game is not working, why not go back to one of your strengths. Bash it up with the forwards. Get in their 22, get a penalty and take the 3 points. Repeat.

I know you practice a certain game plan the whole week, but surely you didn't forget what you practiced last week?

As a captain I would say: "Guys, this is not working, lets start playing tighter and work our way into point scoring positions. If that doesn't work. We are fcked!!!"

I agree, but i dont think its that simple dude.

They never allowed the Boks to play. They dictated the game. They never allowed them any sort of comfort or space. They FORCED their game onto the Boks.

 

[APoc184]

I agree, but i dont think its that simple dude.

They never allowed the Boks to play. They dictated the game. They never allowed them any sort of comfort or space. They FORCED their game onto the Boks.

When we did have the ball we didn't allow ourselves to play. All the knocks and aimless kicking just gave possession back to them.

"It is not as easy as that", I agree but it would have been much easier to ask Bakkies, Juan and Beast to carry it up, rather than fling the ball wide to knocking Habana.

You cannot spread the ball wide and then not commit numbers to the breakdown. That is a recipe for turnovers.

 

[Cantera]

Thinking back - they really outplayed us at the breakdown. The numbers they commited to the breakdown really overwhelmed Brussow. It made him ineffective.

Lets hope we see the Boks dictate the All Blacks.

 

[I am Penguin]

I agree, but i dont think its that simple dude.

They never allowed the Boks to play. They dictated the game. They never allowed them any sort of comfort or space. They FORCED their game onto the Boks.

Fourie was neutralized in the scrums illegally with headbuts etc before he could even play. That stopped the game plan completely. For the loose play the Ausies were just faster and pounched on the ball. This ref (No excuses) was just a joke in the making but we shoukld have been able to create at least a few more chanches to attack. Ruan was well, asleep. The closest we got to their 10meter in the 2nd half, if I remember correctly, was when F Steyn fell on his backside while kicking. I knew that if we were not far ahead by 1/2 time we would loose, I just never expected such a thrashing. Deans also introduced a better playmaker than Gitau releasing him to do what he does best. So all in all it was a Massive won for Deans and a shaded loss for PDV. Big questions was asked.

 

[Milano]

Do you like Peter de Villiers or not?

Umm, do I like him or think he is a good coach?