Pick n Pay expands Bitcoin payment trial ahead of full country-wide launch

AppleFanZA said:
It does not have to be a tax nightmare. You could have a spend wallet for payments as opposed to savings/investing, and we are seeing some jurisdictions exclude such payments from tax reporting, hopefully SARS takes the logical approach. Obviously, if you are funding it from a savings/investment balance you would report that one transaction (same as if you sold).
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This is going to create a massive issue if you managed to move into cgt for btc.

You can never argue cgt if you are continually selling to purchase chips and chocolate...
 
Snyper564 said:
This is going to create a massive issue if you managed to move into cgt for btc.

You can never argue cgt if you are continually selling to purchase chips and chocolate...
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I agree, but somehow, I think if this really does get to mass adaptation, most people would be selling btc at a lost to buy chips and chocolates... :p
 
quovadis said:
Most likely they've got a partner who is just converting it to fiat and paying them seamlessly. Similar to how some of the payment processors operate.
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Yes, crypto is not suited to real time payments - which is what you want for retail.

I'd get if someone did this for houses or cars but not eggs and milk.
 
Nerfherder said:
Yes, crypto is not suited to real time payments - which is what you want for retail.

I'd get if someone did this for houses or cars but not eggs and milk.
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I think retailer will have real time conversion so no loss etc for them but makes no sense to pay your btc in particular...

Now stable coins would be a different story but not btc.

That's like paying for your steak with gold...
 
quovadis said:
Most likely they've got a partner who is just converting it to fiat and paying them seamlessly. Similar to how some of the payment processors operate.
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Exactly this. This resolves the tax liability issue as well since the payment provider is buying and selling Bitcoin at the exact same time and price, then sending it to the receiver (Pick n Pay) over the Lighting Network so that payment is received instantly instead of having to wait for the next block or few to be mined.
 
Sensorei said:
Exactly this. This resolves the tax liability issue as well since the payment provider is buying and selling Bitcoin at the exact same time and price, then sending it to the receiver (Pick n Pay) over the Lighting Network so that payment is received instantly instead of having to wait for the next block or few to be mined.
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Tax liability for pnp yes it would be resolved as it would be tax neutral instant in and out would still need to declare it tho.

Not for the user tho.
 
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deweyzeph said:
Just hope they tell their customers what a tax nightmare they are going to get themselves into when they spend their Bitcoin. Every time you spend Bitcoin it is a taxable event because Bitcoin is not recognised as a currency by SARS. Good luck with that.
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This solution doesn't look like it records any personal information at all. Once your lightning wallet is funded it appears to be just scan and go.

Finally, even if the Lightning Network works out all of its issues, there is still the case of regulators. Regulators may struggle to understand Lightning Network enough to enact proper legislation. If regulators struggle, mainstream crypto users might struggle to use the Lightning Network as well. Even if regulators do understand the protocol, they might not allow the Lightning Network due to its anonymity. Anonymous transactions might scare legislators off, considering they can only see a finalized transaction after a user closes their payment channel, not the individual transactions made within a channel.
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cointelegraph.com

What is the Lightning Network in Bitcoin and how does it work?

The Lightning Network is a second layer added to Bitcoin’s (BTC) blockchain that allows off-chain transactions, i.e. transactions between parties not on the blockchain network.
cointelegraph.com cointelegraph.com

LOL. I doubt people are going to be saving their grocery slips to voluntarily report to SARS.
 
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quovadis said:
Seriously? Surely it's BTC Owner -> Intermediary -> Cash -> PNP ?
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Seriously what?

Pnp would still need to declare the buy and sell of the btc but it would be instant and essentialky tax neutral.

However if you bought btc for 50k and you are now cashing a portion out of that at 500k there is a tax liability for you as the end user.

This is why it's an absolute mess to purchase items with btc like this.
 
Snyper564 said:
Seriously what?

Pnp would still need to declare the buy and sell of the btc but it would be instant and essentialky tax neutral.

However if you bought btc for 50k and you are now cashing a portion out of that at 500k there is a tax liability for you as the end user.

This is why it's an absolute mess to purchase items with btc like this.
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Are PNP ever really purchasing and disposing of the BTC from their customer if there's a payment processor as intermediary?
 
PnP does not take or hold the BTC, if you pay for a R100 basket, PnP gets settled R100.
 
If I am PnP, the only acceptable way would be:
buyers (btc) > cryptoconvert (btc to ZAR) > PnP (ZAR)
This way the conversion risk lies with cryptoconvert, otherwise, the conversion risk lies with me and any hiccups in such a volatile asset could be very costly.
I wonder what kind of deal PnP got that persuaded them to try this new payment method though :unsure:
 
It said the service fee for each transaction is minimal, costing on average 70 cents, and takes less than 30 seconds.
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Costs the customer 70c, right? As opposed to credit card where it costs the customer 0c, and takes 5 seconds.

I know bitcoin's improving, but they really need to get the very basics to parity against their competition.
 
elvis_presley said:
Costs the customer 70c, right? As opposed to credit card where it costs the customer 0c, and takes 5 seconds.

I know bitcoin's improving, but they really need to get the very basics to parity against their competition.
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DISCLAIMER: This response ended up all over the place. Hopefully I made some coherent points.

It moves the cost of the transaction from the merchant to the customer. And rather than smacking the merchant 1%–5% of the transaction value, it's a flat 70c.

Not everyone can have a credit card. And many struggle to even get a debit card.

That said, I do agree that transaction speeds are still too slow. Right now Bitcoin does enough to disrupt SWIFT, but not so much Visa. At least for now.

I know it's basically propaganda, and I am a self-avowed HODLer, but this minidoc from Ledger gave me an appreciation for what the Bitcoin Ekasi guys were doing in Mossel Bay.

When the kid talks about having access to a savings product for the first time... That's something we just take for granted, but for them its potentially life-changing.

 
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