Plan to fix Eskom, remove 100MW embedded generation limit, buy more private power

Speedster

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So in context of @Lexix's post - what certainty do you have that the status quo will remain? CoCT has raised costs and still is DA run?
I am 100% convinced all municipalities will raise costs. I am also 100% convinced the bulk of the increase will not be on the poor. There is no way any municipality in South Africa can charge a blanket R1000 connection fee.
 

Speedster

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So the "availability charge" they're essentially wanting to introduce doesn't set a minimum whether you use 1kwh or 900kwh and it's not disincentivising solar/grid alternatives? And why would Municipalities not adopt the same pricing strategy? How certain are you that the status quo will remain?
Which municipalities are wanting to introduce this?
 
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Lupus

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So the "availability charge" they're essentially wanting to introduce doesn't set a minimum whether you use 1kwh or 900kwh and it's not disincentivising solar/grid alternatives? And why would Municipalities not adopt the same pricing strategy? How certain are you that the status quo will remain?
2 muncipalities already charge a network/connectivity/availability charge, City Power and CoCT. They haven't adopted the current Eskom pricing strategy why would they suddenly adopt it now?
 

Lupus

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I am 100% convinced all municipalities will raise costs. I am also 100% convinced the bulk of the increase will not be on the poor. There is no way any municipality in South Africa can charge a blanket R1000 connection fee.
If they've not already adopted the same pricing structure as City Power or CoCT where there is availbility charge already, in fact the City of Tshwane charges a connection fee for water, some other muncipalities don't, each to their own.
 

quovadis

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2 muncipalities already charge a network/connectivity/availability charge, City Power and CoCT. They haven't adopted the current Eskom pricing strategy why would they suddenly adopt it now?
I think you're being overly optimistic. If Eskom does get NERSA approval for its plans I don't see any barrier for municipalities to follow suit. They have to counter the impact of more and more of their customers going off-grid.
 

Willie Trombone

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Precisely, everyone had this big hooha over the R938 and and, but it's like it's for Eskom direct customers, muncipalities have their own tariff structure.
And for those R938 clients, the proposal is to feed back to Eskom at the rate Eskom bill... So R1.80 / kWh. Yes please.
 

Lupus

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I think you're being overly optimistic. If Eskom does get NERSA approval for its plans I don't see any barrier for municipalities to follow suit. They have to counter the impact of more and more of their customers going off-grid.
There are no barriers now... Muncipalities already charge it in places, there isn't anything stopping them now.
 

Willie Trombone

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I am 100% convinced all municipalities will raise costs. I am also 100% convinced the bulk of the increase will not be on the poor. There is no way any municipality in South Africa can charge a blanket R1000 connection fee.
They can bill what they like. Collection is another story altogether. You'll find loads of people in arrears already. They only disconnect in the suburbs.
 

Speedster

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I think you're being overly optimistic. If Eskom does get NERSA approval for its plans I don't see any barrier for municipalities to follow suit. They have to counter the impact of more and more of their customers going off-grid.
They also have to balance being re-elected. How do they politically motivate charging low income households R1000pm connection fee? If I'm not mistaken the CoCT fee is about R200 - that is VERY different to R1000.

Just look at the Joburg prepaid situation for the last few years for an example.
 

quovadis

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There are no barriers now... Muncipalities already charge it in places, there isn't anything stopping them now.
Municipalities have been loading levies and surcharges - there is no current approval framework to charge a fee that includes a minimum consumption charge?
 

quovadis

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They also have to balance being re-elected. How do they politically motivate charging low income households R1000pm connection fee? If I'm not mistaken the CoCT fee is about R200 - that is VERY different to R1000.

Just look at the Joburg prepaid situation for the last few years for an example.
Because South Africans vote according to how they get ripped off by their municipalities :whistling: What I'm arguing is that if Eskom is successful in getting approval to introduce a minimum charge structure there's no reason why any municipality would not seek the same.
 

Lupus

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Municipalities have been loading levies and surcharges - there is no current approval framework to charge a fee that includes a minimum consumption charge?
They have been charging it yes, City Power has been charging close to R800 for their connectivity fees, no one charges the same as any other muncipality or Eskom, so why would this suddenly change?
 

Speedster

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Municipalities have been loading levies and surcharges - there is no current approval framework to charge a fee that includes a minimum consumption charge?
Then how does CoCT and CoJ charge this?
 

Speedster

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Because South Africans vote according to how they get ripped off by their municipalities :whistling: What I'm arguing is that if Eskom is successful in getting approval to introduce a minimum charge structure there's no reason why any municipality would not seek the same.
That is fair enough. What I am arguing is that the focus of any fixed charge won't be on the poor.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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They also have to balance being re-elected. How do they politically motivate charging low income households R1000pm connection fee? If I'm not mistaken the CoCT fee is about R200 - that is VERY different to R1000.

Just look at the Joburg prepaid situation for the last few years for an example.
Do you really think they will charge that for indigent houses? No they will not.

The fact remains that you will pay for Eskom`s fail, you are and will be tied more to the social system. Your only option is to go off-grid, but they will be going after those socialist exit attempts in some way. CoCT is already not allowing no grid connections, and they know that the fixed charge will be grown hyper inflationary. It is very possible that a huge fixed charge will be forced on to even off-grid systema.
 

Speedster

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Because they can, they just need to pay Eskom, Eskom doesn't care about how they charge their users.
You completely missed the point. The guy said there is no framework to charge these fees. I asked how those municipalities are able to charge them then.
 

Speedster

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Do you really think they will charge that for indigent houses? No they will not.

The fact remains that if you will pay for Eskom`s fail, you are and will be tied more to the social system. Your only option is to go off-grid, but they will be going after those socialist exit attempts in some way. CoCT is already not allowing no grid connections, and they know that the fixed charge will be grown hyper inflationary. It is very possible that a huge fixed charge will be forced on to even off-grid systema.
How's the move going?
 
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