Plastic bag levy goes into a black hole

DJ...

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So dj how much would it cost for 5 million plastic bags to be manufactured and branded with spar's logo? Perhaps we should even talk about 10-20 million bags. Do you have any idea other than tearing into me and acting all angry?

You're the one assuming to know. I'm the one accepting the official statements made by retailers since the plastic bag levy inception and with no subsequent evidence to the contrary. If you want to prove your point, you are the one who needs to provide these facts. Me? I'm simply saying you're sucking assumptions from your rectum again...


So the government is fleecing us as usual, what is the big deal bro, honestly 4 cents on plastic bags, what is the fuel levy again?

Oh so there is a critical mass at which point it becomes an issue? Smaller corruption is tolerable in your eyes? WTF?
 

DJ...

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Where is the proof that he's making nothing on selling the bags?

EDIT: And I'd appreciate that you made comments related to the story rather than insults.

"The problem is that it is our cost; we make nothing on the selling of these plastic bags. They cost us more than we sell them for."

We only have their official statements to go on:

"The problem is that it is our cost; we make nothing on the selling of these plastic bags. They cost us more than we sell them for."

And no evidence to the contrary. You are proposing they publicly state all spending and costs. Do you have any idea how fscking ridiculous this is for a private company?

And what are you two going on about in any case? There is no evidence of the private sector screwing the consumers over here. What there is, is evidence of the government screwing you over. Yet you and killa want to have an argument based on speculation of an issue that has no basis in reality, that has nothing to do with the article.

You're adopting ANC deflection tactics and it leaves a really bad taste in the mouth...
 

DJ...

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DJ always insults me bro, nothing unusual

No, you just happen to continually post bullschit. The rebuttals are misinterpreted by you, as you do with most articles as well, and you claim you're being attacked...
 

killadoob

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Good article actually highlights a point i was making, they no longer have to take the cost of plastic bag into their operating costs.

Some are making money off the bags just like government, where does that money go?

Now spar, pick n pay etc no longer supply bags at their own cost. So the real winner in my opinion are the super markets and not the government, they must have been over the moon when the government decided to do what they did with the plastic bags.

We are getting fleeced in just about every sector but the OP fails to highlight that. DJ go take a tablet and breath bro, you are very agro.

You can phone around DJ and get some costing on 10 million plastic bags branded with x amount of colours. Journalist should be doing that as well and ensuring the supermarkets are also targeted if they are making millions.
 
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Fudzy

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We only have their official statements to go on:



And no evidence to the contrary. You are proposing they publicly state all spending and costs. Do you have any idea how fscking ridiculous this is for a private company?

And what are you two going on about in any case? There is no evidence of the private sector screwing the consumers over here. What there is, is evidence of the government screwing you over. Yet you and killa want to have an argument based on speculation of an issue that has no basis in reality, that has nothing to do with the article.

You're adopting ANC deflection tactics and it leaves a really bad taste in the mouth...

Deflection? What deflection? I would like to know more on both sides to this story. If there is corruption, it must be uncovered.
 

killadoob

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No, you just happen to continually post bullschit. The rebuttals are misinterpreted by you, as you do with most articles as well, and you claim you're being attacked...

Naaa you just cannot accept we live in a corrupt country and we are fleeced from every direction, it isn't only government that is corrupt. Our entire country is corrupt bud. When you land on planet earth some time pm me for a reality check.

So the ANC are corrupt yet the super markets benefited massively from this as well. No corruption? or is it a case of only the anc being attacked and everything else ignored.

If the super markets are making money off bags where is that money going DJ? Straight into their back pocket, o well i guess that is ok because it isn't ANC related.
 
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DJ...

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Deflection? What deflection? I would like to know more on both sides to this story. If there is corruption, it must be uncovered.

The issue is about government fleecing the coffers once again, and you and killa are speculating (based on nothing whatsoever) that the retailers are somehow in on this all too and are demanding answers. It is the very definition of deflection, especially in light of the fact that your speculation was already addressed in the article with an official statement by one of the retailers...
 
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Fudzy

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The issue is about government fleecing the coffers once again, and you and killa are speculating (based on nothing whatsoever) that the retailers are somehow in on this all too and are demanding answers. It is the very definition of deflection, especially in light of the fact that your speculation was already addressed in the article with an official statement by one of the retailers...

Well go on, do what you do best. Find out if the programme has infact created any jobs or is it just a big corrupt smokescreen. Nice dodge on my post about what Spar said a couple months ago btw.
 

DJ...

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Naaa you just cannot accept we live in a corrupt country

You really do only read what you want. I am an incredibly vocal opponent of corruption and private company scams/corruption. e-toll; arms deal; nkandla; trading scams; private company collusion; education related scams - these are just a few issues that I have not only been vocal about, but have spent my own time researching and uncovering corruption. You simply like to see conspiracies around every corner, regardless of facts.

I on the other hand prefer to research these issues. You can find my latest on e-tolls and nkandla/korong right here on the forum...
 

killadoob

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The issue is about government fleecing the coffers once again, and you and killa are speculating (based on nothing whatsoever) that the retailers are somehow in on this all too and are demanding answers. It is the very definition of deflection, especially in light of the fact that your speculation was already addressed in the article with an official statement by one of the retailers...

Well if there is corruption i would like to know if the corruption is from both the anc and the super markets. Sorry if that upsets but that is how i am, i question other things. We know the ANC are corrupt but what about pick n pay? Are they charging more than they pay for their bags dj? Surely you would also like to know if the super markets are in on this corruption?

So the super markets went from charging nothing and paying out for bags, to possibly making millions from bag sales. You find that acceptable? It is just as bad as the anc pocketing the profits but obviously not to you.

Well i can tell you plastic bags with the government levy on 10 million go for around 25cents, importing from china is what i would like to know. Do they import from china? Has anyone checked what pick n pay, spar etc are getting the bags for and what they are selling them for?

Surely in this article they should have researched that as well. Corruption to me is the same regardless if it's the anc or a private company, maybe not for you though.
 
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Fudzy

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I on the other hand prefer to research these issues. You can find my latest on e-tolls and nkandla/korong right here on the forum...

Well then try find the corruption in this:

It had established 15 plastic bag buy-back centres and supported 25 existing facilities.

But it was not possible to say how many of the 1900 to 3800 new jobs predicted had been created or how many bags had been recycled, he said.
 

DJ...

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Well if there is corruption i would like to know if the corruption is from both the anc and the super markets. Sorry if that upsets but that is how i am, i question other things. We know the ANC are corrupt but what about pick n pay? Are they charging more than they pay for their bags dj? Surely you would also like to know if the super markets are in on this corruption?

So the super markets went from charging nothing and paying out for bags, to possibly making millions from bag sales. You find that acceptable? It is just as bad as the anc pocketing the profits but obviously not to you.

Well i can tell you plastic bags with the government levy on 10 million go for around 25cents, importing from china is what i would like to know. Do they import from china? Has anyone checked what pick n pay, spar etc are getting the bags for and what they are selling them for?

Surely in this article they should have researched that as well. Corruption to me is the same regardless if it's the anc or a private company, maybe not for you though.

I have to make something abundantly clear here. If a retailer chooses to make money on their bags, I have no issue with that. It is not corruption in any way whatsoever. It is their choice in a free market. They will however damage their reputation and isolate customers, so for those reasons, they are inclined not to make much, if anything at all. They made a loss on bags in all preceding years when they manufactured them and gave them away for free.

Secondly, there was an official statement that they in fact make a loss on the bags to an extent. Nobody has access to their source financials so there is no way to know this. Personally, I do not care if they make a loss or a profit, I am interested in what happens with the government levy that you and I have to pay for now.

That government levy goes straight to companies who have already been shown to be corrupt and the government has been turning a blind eye to it for years now. There was a Carte Blanche expose` about this a few years back already. Why you seem to think retailers' profit or loss on the bags is the real question is beyond me. Absolutely fscking beyond me. You might as well start calling them corrupt for their retail price of Cadbury's chocolate. I believe that you don't know what corruption is...
 

DJ...

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Well then try find the corruption in this:

What exactly are you expecting me to research here? Should I demand that they give me the numbers? Or am I supposed to be uncovering something else here?
 

killadoob

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Of course it is corrupt to make money off plastic bags, FFS they were giving them out for free at one stage now they making money off it and you are fine with it? They are exploiting the situation just like the ANC for their own gain but it is somehow different?

The government are free to fleece us as well, it is a free market for them.

So we have the ANC enriching themselves, we call it corruption
Then we have the super markets enriching themselves and we say that is fine.

Ok DJ if you think that way no wonder we sit being ripped off in every god damn sector because people like you don't mind it unless the ANC is the party fleecing us. Both parties are enriching themselves but one party can do it without much fuss.
 

grok

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We knew this was going to happen when they announced this years ago, didn't we?

Same with the carbon levy on new vehicles, that money is supposed to go towards green initiatives to counter the issue .. but with current government it probably does go into some black hole.
 

Rabobi

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@Garyvdh

I think its time.

Can you create a thread with all the individual items we usually discuss on mybb. A bulletpoint list of the things the ANC is skimming our money off of.

And then sticky it so that anyone can see it. Maybe a single URL to the discussion thread or the article, but keeping it bulleted
 
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LazyLion

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http://www.iol.co.za/blogs/wendy-kn...lastic-packets-who-bags-the-profits-1.1356896

That was one of the questions I asked all four major supermarket groups last week: “Minus the levy, does that leave the company with |a profit or break-even on each bag, given that prior to the introduction of the levy, the supermarket groups bore the cost of the albeit thinner bags?”

Three denied making a profit on the bags…

Pick n Pay: “We make no profit on the bags.”

Shoprite/Checkers: “The Shoprite Group has been selling the regulated bags below cost price since the inception of the law in 2003 as part of its commitment to its customers.”

Woolworths: “The bags are not a profit stream for us.”

And Spar was decidedly cagey: “We can appreciate that this is of public interest… but our competitors would be even more interested…”
 

DJ...

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Of course it is corrupt to make money off plastic bags, FFS they were giving them out for free at one stage now they making money off it and you are fine with it?

So?! By the same logic you should consider it corrupt when they raise GP margins. Do you? Of course it isn't corrupt and I have already provided reasons as to why they'd want to mitigate this in the first place. Why are these reasons, according to you, invalid?

They are exploiting the situation just like the ANC for their own gain but it is somehow different?

Of course it is different. But then again, all evidence points to the contrary of your claims. But let's assume they do make a profit - who cares? You have the choice to buy their bags or not. You do not have a choice when it comes to where the levy money is spent. One is simply a company making money from a product that you derive value from; the other is corruption in levies and taxes. You finding the two situations the same is perplexing...


The government are free to fleece us as well, it is a free market for them.

What the actual fsck?! No really now. This is stupid to the power of ten. Do you have even the faintest inkling of how a free market works? This is not it...


So we have the ANC enriching themselves, we call it corruption
Then we have the super markets enriching themselves and we say that is fine.

By that logic any profit making in the private market is a corrupt practice. Do you not read these posts back in your own head before hitting the submit button? And legislating taxation for the purposes of diverting private capital into corrupt companies owned and operated by the lawmakers and law-enforcers is not the same as adding a margin to products in the private market. Sometimes I think you need a fighter pilot suit to redirect blood flow to more appropriate areas...
 
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