Plastic bag levy goes into a black hole

2021

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There was a Carte Blanche expose` about this a few years back already.

I remember that episode actually, some recycling plants didnt even exist if i remember correctly?

Why do these things always just slip through and no-one accountable? That what infuriates me, expose the corruption and nothing happens!
 

LazyLion

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http://www.econrsa.org/papers/p_papers/pp18.pdf

increase in the cost of buying the bags as the main reason for the price increments. They also
emphasized that they were not making any pro…fits from the bag sales.
The increase in the bag
consumption accorded with comments and observations from the representatives of the four selected
retailers.
The cost of the base material naturally influences the cost of the bag to the retailer. Although
polyethylene polymers are produced from coal in South Africa, they are more generally produced
from oil. Despite this, the base price has been less volatile than the oil price; the London Metal
Exchange (LME) price of soft polyethylene rose from under $1100 per tonne in 2006 to a peak of
roughly $1700 in July 2008 and was down to $1450 by September 20089 . Although the price rises
were not as signifi…cant as the changes in the oil price, they have further prompted growth in PET
(polyethylene) recycling.
 

DJ...

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DJ...

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I remember that episode actually, some recycling plants didnt even exist if i remember correctly?

Why do these things always just slip through and no-one accountable? That what infuriates me, expose the corruption and nothing happens!

Yip. This is the real issue, but killa and Fudzy are intent on turning it into a debate about speculation about private retailers instead. Speculation that has no basis in reality...
 

killadoob

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Even if they were making a profit, I wouldn't give a hoot.

That right there is exactly why we get fleeced from every possible direction.

Nobody really cares, we all like to sit and bitch but at the of the day we just bend. For the most part we bend willingly unless it is ANC related.

Well me and fudzy are seeing corruption from both sides, where as you ignore the corruption or possible corruption. It's fine though but don't get upset because people question stuff. Address it in a decent manner. Gary has done so and linked me something very interesting even though i phoned a company and i was told they could do 10 million plastic bags for 25 cents, perhaps less depending on how many colours the printing would be.
 
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DJ...

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That right there is exactly why we get fleeced from every possible direction.

Nobody really cares, we all like to sit and bitch but at the of the day we just bend.

In a free market you have the opportunity to take your business elsewhere if you disagree. But you're trying to equate the concept of profit with government corruption which is so incredibly ridiculous I think I very nearly suffered a hernia in my pre-frontal cortex trying to correlate the two.

Once again your argument is based on nothing but speculation and your own misunderstanding of how things work.

But please explain to me why a retailer, in your mind, is precluded from making a profit on something that they manufacture, and you derive value from? Why should they not be entitled to making a profit on such an item?
 

LazyLion

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@Garyvdh
I think its time.
Can you create a thread with all the individual items we usually discuss on mybb. A bulletpoint list of the things the ANC is skimming our money off of.
And then sticky it so that anyone can see it. Maybe a single URL to the discussion thread or the article, but keeping it bulleted

You mean like....

Telkom
Eskom
Property Rates Bills
Speeding Fines
Vehicle and Drivers Licensing Fees
SABC License
Proposed e-tolls and existing Toll Fees
Tyre Recycling Levy
Plastic bag recycling levy
PAYE Tax
UIF
SDL
VAT
Airport & Transport Taxes
Fuel Levy
3rd Party
Workman's Comp Fund
Estate Tax
Dividend Tax
Capital Gains Tax
...Etc.

What did I leave out?
 

killadoob

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In a free market you have the opportunity to take your business elsewhere if you disagree. But you're trying to equate the concept of profit with government corruption which is so incredibly ridiculous I think I very nearly suffered a hernia in my pre-frontal cortex trying to correlate the two.

Once again your argument is based on nothing but speculation and your own misunderstanding of how things work.

But please explain to me why a retailer, in your mind, is precluded from making a profit on something that they manufacture, and you derive value from? Why should they not be entitled to making a profit on such an item?

It's plastic bags, when people walk out they should not be filling the coffers of pick n pay with money from plastic bags that were once free.

Simple. I have no issue with it but it is no less corrupt, they have seen an opportunity to make some extra money and instead of doing the decent thing they have done the typically anc thing. We shop and spend our money on their goods and they still fleece us on the way out.

I see your point but i don't think being fleeced by pick n pay or the anc is any different in this situation.

If people have such a big issue with the anc taking 4 cents or pick n pay taking 4-10 cents use other means to carry your goods, really is that simple. Shopper bags are like 10 rand and you can re-use them over and over and over giving pick n pay no extra money and ensuring the anc don't get a cent.

If you want to stop giving the anc and super markets corrupt money stop buying plastic bags. Use your wallet to talk not a forum which in this case is easily done.
 
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jouda

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Just a few points:
You have a choice whether to buy the bags or not. The bag is still an item being sold by the retailers and therefore it is their choice whether they want to make a profit off of it or not, if it bothers you that much go to p&p buy your bags and take them with when you go shopping at a retailer making a profit off of them.

google define:corruption...
Noun
Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.
The action of making someone or something morally depraved or the state of being so.
 

Mila

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You mean like....

Telkom
Eskom
Property Rates Bills
Speeding Fines
Vehicle and Drivers Licensing Fees
SABC License
Proposed e-tolls and existing Toll Fees
Tyre Recycling Levy
Plastic bag recycling levy
PAYE Tax
UIF
SDL
VAT
Airport & Transport Taxes
Fuel Levy
3rd Party
Workman's Comp Fund
Estate Tax
Dividend Tax
Capital Gains Tax
...Etc.

What did I leave out?
Education
Health
WAter
Green Tax on vehicles
 

DJ...

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It's plastic bags, when people walk out they should not be filling the coffer of pick n pay with money from plastic bags that were once free.

Why not? They've had to abide by legislation forcing them to up their input cost and requiring overhauling of their manufacturing business. They're cross-subsidising this aspect of their business by upping the price of other products already. You are paying for this whether you like it or not, forced because of legislation. It is far easier to account for this by simply tacking on a fixed margin to the bags, and more transparent to you as a customer...

Simple. I have no issue with it but it is no less corrupt

That is not what corruption is. Please consult a dictionary...


they have seen an opportunity to make some extra money and instead of doing the decent thing they have done the typically anc thing.

Firstly, they haven't. Which has now been pointed out to you no less than 5 times in this thread already. Secondly, if they were, you'd need to find a way to do some incredible mental gymnastics to equate profit with corruption. This notion is simply absurd and you have yet to back it up in this thread. Just because you don't like the price of things going up, and have no grasp of economics, does not make retail price increases corrupt...


I see your point but i don't think being fleeced by pick n pay or the anc is any different in this situation.

But it absolutely is. But again, luckily they're not "fleecing" us. They are what are known as loss-leaders. Google it. And once more, the concept of profit is not a corrupt principle unless you're an ANC communist. Are you?
 

LazyLion

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Education
The Education system is funded through other forms of tax.
But we know that the School Fees collected are also insufficient.
IMO, the Education system is way underfunded.
(but that is most likely due to corruption).
Money for the health system comes from other forms of tax.
There is no direct Health tax yet... wait for the NHI to be implemented.
We know that our Water is currently very underfunded.
Green Tax on vehicles
Has this been implemented yet?
 

killadoob

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Gary the green tax has been implemented, i saw it the other day. Can't remember when or what manufacturer but on the website the advert said green tax included.

No idea how much though but i would be interested to know. I am going to fetch my kia cerato today i will go ask the sales people there before i collect it.

DJ i phoned a plastic bag manufacturer and they said they could do bags for low as 25 cents Including the tax depending on quantity and colours. So i have already proven the 35 cents we get charged is 10 cents higher, you are more than welcome to do your own phoning and confirm or deny it.

It is corrupt for pick n pay to claim they make no money off the bags, they are lying. If they charge 35 cents and someone can prove they are making money off the bag while they claim not to be it is out right corruption.
 
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LazyLion

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Gary the green tax has been implemented, i saw it the other day. Can't remember when or what manufacturer but on the website the advert said green tax included.
No idea how much though but i would be interested to know. I am going to fetch my kia cerato today i will go ask the sales people there before i collect it.

OK, so we can add that to the list.

Obviously we can't PROVE that we are being fleeced through every single one of those channels by a supposedly corrupt government, but the simple fact that most of those institutions or funding mechanisms are in trouble or at least are very poorly managed speaks for itself.

I don't doubt that we are also being fleeced by the Retailers, but that does not bother me as much, and in my own experience this is not really happening as evidenced by the prices that I have been tracking in my Shopping and Price Watch Thread. If you continually buy Premium Products though, then you are more likely to be fleeced, but that is just a common business fact.
 

DJ...

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DJ i phoned a plastic bag manufacturer and they said they could do bags for low as 25 cents Including the tax depending on quantity and colours. So i have already proven the 35 cents we get charged is 10 cents higher, you are more than welcome to do your own phoning and confirm or deny it.

You believe that manufacturing costs are the only input costs here? Really?
 

killadoob

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OK, so we can add that to the list.

Obviously we can't PROVE that we are being fleeced through every single one of those channels by a supposedly corrupt government, but the simple fact that most of those institutions or funding mechanisms are in trouble or at least are very poorly managed speaks for itself.

I don't doubt that we are also being fleeced by the Retailers, but that does not bother me as much, and in my own experience this is not really happening as evidenced by the prices that I have been tracking in my Shopping and Price Watch Thread. If you continually buy Premium Products though, then you are more likely to be fleeced, but that is just a common business fact.

Fully agree but if the likes of pick n pay and spar are claiming they make no money off plastic bags while they do would that change your mind or is lying to make more profit acceptable?
 
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TelkomUseless

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Fully agree but if the likes of pick n pay and spar are claiming they make no money off plastic bags while they do would that change your mind or is lying to get make more profit acceptable?

It's like the car dealers paying your first 6 months installements? Do you really think they are? They already calculated the prices etc before hand etc. Cash backs .. not nice about lying but seriously it not fraud/corruption etc.

The money they would make out of plastic bags is so small compared to the profit they make out of sales... it's not worth losing clients to get extra R10 mill out of plastic bags and you lose R100m in sales/profit because you lost the clients
 
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killadoob

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It's like the car dealers paying your first 6 months installements? Do you really think they are? They already calculated the prices etc before hand etc. Cash backs .. not nice about lying but seriously it not fraud/corruption etc.

The money they would make out of plastic bags is so small compared to the profit they make out of sales... it's not worth losing clients to get extra R10 mill out of plastic bags and you lose R100m in sales/profit because you lost the clients

I really doubt anyone cares if they are making money off plastic bags when they claim they are not. Unless it's the ANC it won't be investigated.

I don't care if they are making profit i just find it laughable that we are crying about corruption over plastic bags when we can simply not buy plastic bags and avoid giving the anc money and avoid possibly enriching the super markets even further. This is actually something we can all stop but instead i bet majority of us sit crying about the corruption while buying plastic bags daily.

Go buy shopping bags you can reuse over and over, stop the corruption because this time we actually can stop the corruption because we do not really need to fill our cars with plastic bags but it is convenient so we will rather use the bags and then cry about the corruption on a forum.
 
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LazyLion

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Fully agree but if the likes of pick n pay and spar are claiming they make no money off plastic bags while they do would that change your mind or is lying to make more profit acceptable?

At this point in time I have no proof whatsoever to say they are lying.
In fact all the evidence points to them telling the truth.
I work with packaging suppliers. I know how expensive the stuff is.

The point of the thread is that we are more concerned with the few cents that is going to the government levy.
 
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