Police assault on unarmed man in Fish Hoek

TEXTILE GUY

TEXTILE GUY

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Cosmik Debris said:
I have several years CPF experience at senior level. As it stands, no CPF can function correctly because:

1. Selection. The CPF has to be elected by community members. This results in politicians getting their voters and candidates to the election and I have seen a garden boy who cannot write, has no email, phone nor computer and no management experience elected to chairman. Populists and pastors are the next most popular nominees.

2. The SAPS close shop and withhold information from the CPF. They are often involved in crime themselves and no CPF member can trust the SAPS with information about crime and SAPS involvement.

3. There is no way a CPF can hold the SAPS accountable. No CPF member may even read the occurrence (OB) book in the charge office. No docket may be read and even accounts for travel or vehicle repairs are all confidential and not for the CPF's information.

4. The CPF has to utilise information on crime given by the police. The number and type of occurrences are given but never names or locations so it's impossible for a CPF to draw up a hotspot map and make plans to counter the problem.

Until laws are enacted that give CPF's teeth, they will remain pooh - poohed by the SAPS and used for show only. The only way to give a CPF teeth is to:

1. Applications with CV's need to be submitted and then the selection done after an interview by senior police and independent HR group appointed from a company. Naturally the aspirant member needs to be cleared and capable of keeping information confidential.

2. The OB book needs to be open to CPF members.

3. Should there be any suspicion regarding accounts, a CPF member should be appointed to investigate and the accounts should be available.

4. When a CPF member has substantial information on a bent cop, they should be able to request a hawks member to assist them without the local SAPS knowing.

Otherwise the CPFs just remain a sideshow.
Click to expand...
Man, thats a great post!!

I cant argue with any of it.
 
capd

capd

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William Foster said:
CPF people are white I presume, must be racist.
Click to expand...

Correct. Fine people. The accusations of racism are hilarious since they are well respected in Site 5/Masiphumelele. SAPS have pulled the race card and failed far too many times to be taken seriously.

0BB085E3-6BF9-41A0-AF74-B0D58ADAE7CF.jpeg
 
RonSwanson

RonSwanson

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Cosmik Debris said:
CPF are not members of the SAPS. They have no warrant card and no powers of arrest. An SAPS civilian admin clerk is a member of the SAPS. No CPF member is a member of the SAPS.
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Agreed that CPF are not SAPS members, this is because they are not employed by the SAPS, under the SAPS Act. I am not sure what you mean by "warrant card", there is no such thing. SAPS members have an appointment certificate, in card form. Even civilians employed by the SAPS have an appointment certificate, signed by the national commissioner, as do NCOs. Officers' appointment certificates are signed by the State President.
All civilians are referred to, and treated by the SAPS members as haasmanne. This has been part of the SAPS culture for many decades. The SAPS will close ranks on haasmanne, they are seen as outsiders to the service. There are very good reasons for this, it worked well under the previous dispensation, partly due to the fact that the police were militarised and had high standards of discipline, but it is abused to a large degree with today's completely useless SAPS, which is devoid of any pride or standards whatsoever. These days only certain portions of it are militarised, like the VIP protection services, at the whim of the esteemed minister (who, as a preschool teacher does not understand hasn't a cooking clue on anything military but has a morbid fascination with it nonetheless).
The CPF is a complete sham. The community policing model was and is very poorly understood and implemented, and its primary purpose was to seek and regain the trust of the public through engagement and openness. It's a twin headed dragon, one head facing the public with a fake smile, and the other maintaining the barriers of old, protecting members and closing ranks on the public. In the middle is the police service itself, which, due to the fact that since 1994 it has had completely unqualified, inexperienced and useless leadership, has deteriorated been completely destroyed by all previous ministers, national commissioners, and their appointed senior officers.
Another completely failed social experiment with one of the most important organs of state.
 
S

saturnz

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19,666
TEXTILE GUY said:
Man, thats a great post!!

I cant argue with any of it.
Click to expand...


the premise of the argument is that police are there to protect citizens,

everything he said falls flat once we recognise they are not here to protect citizens
 
RonSwanson

RonSwanson

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wbot said:
Police say he assaulted them during heated argument


Wonder how true that is :unsure: Where's the full vid?
Click to expand...
It's a half-hearted attempt to create a bargaining chip, justify their actions in the eyes of the public, and to get sympathy from peers. Legally it won't fly though, because if he had assaulted them, then their responsibility was to perform a direct arrest, which they did not do.
 
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Hemi300c

Hemi300c

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Cosmik Debris said:
I have several years CPF experience at senior level. As it stands, no CPF can function correctly because:

1. Selection. The CPF has to be elected by community members. This results in politicians getting their voters and candidates to the election and I have seen a garden boy who cannot write, has no email, phone nor computer and no management experience elected to chairman. Populists and pastors are the next most popular nominees.

2. The SAPS close shop and withhold information from the CPF. They are often involved in crime themselves and no CPF member can trust the SAPS with information about crime and SAPS involvement.

3. There is no way a CPF can hold the SAPS accountable. No CPF member may even read the occurrence (OB) book in the charge office. No docket may be read and even accounts for travel or vehicle repairs are all confidential and not for the CPF's information.

4. The CPF has to utilise information on crime given by the police. The number and type of occurrences are given but never names or locations so it's impossible for a CPF to draw up a hotspot map and make plans to counter the problem.

Until laws are enacted that give CPF's teeth, they will remain pooh - poohed by the SAPS and used for show only. The only way to give a CPF teeth is to:

1. Applications with CV's need to be submitted and then the selection done after an interview by senior police and independent HR group appointed from a company. Naturally the aspirant member needs to be cleared and capable of keeping information confidential.

2. The OB book needs to be open to CPF members.

3. Should there be any suspicion regarding accounts, a CPF member should be appointed to investigate and the accounts should be available.

4. When a CPF member has substantial information on a bent cop, they should be able to request a hawks member to assist them without the local SAPS knowing.

Otherwise the CPFs just remain a sideshow.
Click to expand...
I too was involved in the higher echelons of our CPF and I couldn't agree more.
 
The Free Radical

The Free Radical

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RonSwanson said:
Agreed that CPF are not SAPS members, this is because they are not employed by the SAPS, under the SAPS Act. I am not sure what you mean by "warrant card", there is no such thing. SAPS members have an appointment certificate, in card form. Even civilians employed by the SAPS have an appointment certificate, signed by the national commissioner, as do NCOs. Officers' appointment certificates are signed by the State President.
All civilians are referred to, and treated by the SAPS members as haasmanne. This has been part of the SAPS culture for many decades. The SAPS will close ranks on haasmanne, they are seen as outsiders to the service. There are very good reasons for this, it worked well under the previous dispensation, partly due to the fact that the police were militarised and had high standards of discipline, but it is abused to a large degree with today's completely useless SAPS, which is devoid of any pride or standards whatsoever. These days only certain portions of it are militarised, like the VIP protection services, at the whim of the esteemed minister (who, as a preschool teacher does not understand hasn't a cooking clue on anything military but has a morbid fascination with it nonetheless).
The CPF is a complete sham. The community policing model was and is very poorly understood and implemented, and its primary purpose was to seek and regain the trust of the public through engagement and openness. It's a twin headed dragon, one head facing the public with a fake smile, and the other maintaining the barriers of old, protecting members and closing ranks on the public. In the middle is the police service itself, which, due to the fact that since 1994 it has had completely unqualified, inexperienced and useless leadership, has deteriorated been completely destroyed by all previous ministers, national commissioners, and their appointed senior officers.
Another completely failed social experiment with one of the most important organs of state.
Click to expand...

Agree 1000%

CPF's are there for show.
They are powerless because they not fulfilling their original oversight role, because of closed ranks in the service.
They also have no real statistics to go bye in terms of orgnaising community crime prevention. SAPS cant release recent stats by law. CPF's are a total waste of time and energy to get involved with.
 
G

G'Wobblez

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wbot said:
Police say he assaulted them during heated argument


Wonder how true that is :unsure: Where's the full vid?
Click to expand...
Even if he did, you don’t beat up on him like that. You subdue him and put him in handcuffs.
The woman will have to come out and state what happened before the video started. If she saw anything. Maybe someone has cctv footage
 
wbot

wbot

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G'Wobblez said:
Even if he did, you don’t beat up on him like that.
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I disagree. Anyone stupid enough to assault police deserves to get beaten up. I'm also not against police shooting morons attacking them.

Not saying this guy assaulted police though. Don't know the whole story so don't know if he did anything to deserve it or not.
 
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