Police assault on unarmed man in Fish Hoek

Tim_vb

Tim_vb

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Whright said:
The BIG question is..

the guy being beat up, does he have a criminal record, is he high on fentanyl, does he have an arrest warrant on his name, is he resisting arrest or does he have fake rand notes ???????????

or these cops just abusing their power.
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Funny how few of the right wingers on the forum, here are springing to the defense of the cops. When cops can get away with violence and intimidation to serve those in power they will use it. This is why there needs to be independent institutions and civil actions that are strong enough to hold the police to account when they don't do they jobs.
 
Bewlen

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saturnz said:
the premise of the argument is that police are there to protect citizens,

everything he said falls flat once we recognise they are not here to protect citizens
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This. As a law-abiding citizen, I have a great fear of police. In my opinion, they are simply a legalized gang of criminals. 99% bad apples, with 1% good apples accidentally strewn in.

I have no use for saps, other than case numbers for insurance purposes.
 
Cosmik Debris

Cosmik Debris

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RonSwanson said:
Agreed that CPF are not SAPS members, this is because they are not employed by the SAPS, under the SAPS Act. I am not sure what you mean by "warrant card", there is no such thing. SAPS members have an appointment certificate, in card form. Even civilians employed by the SAPS have an appointment certificate, signed by the national commissioner, as do NCOs. Officers' appointment certificates are signed by the State President.
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My mistake. Thank you for the correction.

RonSwanson said:
The CPF is a complete sham. The community policing model was and is very poorly understood and implemented, and its primary purpose was to seek and regain the trust of the public through engagement and openness.
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Yes, this was post 1994 when the police were demilitarised and a more community friendly and open service envisaged. It was part of the ANC Utopia that was supposed to occur after 1994 and the police would eventually be disbanded because there would be no more crime in the new SA. (I kid you not!). Charge Offices were renamed to Community Service Centres. The CPF idea was to introduce a democratisation aspect into the police to look after the community who didn't trust the police pre 1994 and to gain their trust post 1994. The concept was not well thought out and was a euphoric idea of having a civilian oversight over the police - Without giving the civilian oversight legal powers.

Hemi300c said:
I too was involved in the higher echelons of our CPF and I couldn't agree more.
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Thank you. Only once you've banged your head against the brick wall a few times do you realise the police don't actually have respect for nor do they want the CPF snooping around.


The Free Radical said:
Agree 1000%

CPF's are there for show.
They are powerless because they not fulfilling their original oversight role, because of closed ranks in the service.
They also have no real statistics to go bye in terms of orgnaising community crime prevention. SAPS cant release recent stats by law. CPF's are a total waste of time and energy to get involved with.
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They cannot fulfil their oversight role because they cannot even read the OB book in the charge office. The only info given them is the number and type of crimes for the month and no other information such as names of perps. victims, places nor circumstances. With this minimum of information, CPF's are supposed to plan interventions to prevent crime. Crikey, they don't even have a clue where the crime happened nor the circumstances and no information will be given by the SAPS.

I agree that in their present toothless format CPF's are a complete waste of time and energy.

Tim_vb said:
Funny how few of the right wingers on the forum, here are springing to the defense of the cops. When cops can get away with violence and intimidation to serve those in power they will use it. This is why there needs to be independent institutions and civil actions that are strong enough to hold the police to account when they don't do they jobs.
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Firstly, can you name the right wingers here?

I have just explained exactly why the independent and legal institution called the Community Police Forum, which legally has oversight of the police, can not exercise oversight because the police refuse to give them any information. And they legally cannot demand that information. Therefore they cannot perform their oversight function.
 
The Free Radical

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Cosmik Debris said:
My mistake. Thank you for the correction.



Yes, this was post 1994 when the police were demilitarised and a more community friendly and open service envisaged. It was part of the ANC Utopia that was supposed to occur after 1994 and the police would eventually be disbanded because there would be no more crime in the new SA. (I kid you not!). Charge Offices were renamed to Community Service Centres. The CPF idea was to introduce a democratisation aspect into the police to look after the community who didn't trust the police pre 1994 and to gain their trust post 1994. The concept was not well thought out and was a euphoric idea of having a civilian oversight over the police - Without giving the civilian oversight legal powers.



Thank you. Only once you've banged your head against the brick wall a few times do you realise the police don't actually have respect for nor do they want the CPF snooping around.




They cannot fulfil their oversight role because they cannot even read the OB book in the charge office. The only info given them is the number and type of crimes for the month and no other information such as names of perps. victims, places nor circumstances. With this minimum of information, CPF's are supposed to plan interventions to prevent crime. Crikey, they don't even have a clue where the crime happened nor the circumstances and no information will be given by the SAPS.

I agree that in their present toothless format CPF's are a complete waste of time and energy.



Firstly, can you name the right wingers here?

I have just explained exactly why the independent and legal institution called the Community Police Forum, which legally has oversight of the police, can not exercise oversight because the police refuse to give them any information. And they legally cannot demand that information. Therefore they cannot perform their oversight function.
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Perfect analysis.

Former CPF Commitee member myself.
 
Cosmik Debris

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Pak Fa Fui said:
Overstepping authority and CPF members
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You obviously have no clue of the law nor the function of the CPF, despite my explaining it in detail. No CPF member may stop any SAPS member from performing an arrest or intervene in any interaction between a member of the public and the SAPS. Any CPF member attempting this is warned, during their training as CPF members, that they will be arrested should they intervene between the public and SAPS.
 
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Pak Fa Fui

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Cosmik Debris said:
You obviously have no clue of the law nor the function of the CPF, despite my explaining it in detail. No CPF member may stop any SAPS member from performing an arrest or intervene in any interaction between a member of the public and the SAPS. Any CPF member attempting this is warned, during their training as CPF members, that they will be arrested should they intervene between the public and SAPS.
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Doesn’t stop them does it
Power tripping more than eskom during a snow storm
 
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Pak Fa Fui

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Cosmik Debris said:
Vague as usual. Who are "them"? Stop them doing what? How often does it snow in Fish Hoek then?

Learn to articulate what you are trying to say in English.
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Your Post is about do and donts of CPF members
My reply is “doesn’t stop them does it”
CPF people think they are the authority, they are not, they are not even an extension of the SAPS
I don’t like or get along with CPF members if you really need me to spell it out for you
 
Cosmik Debris

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Pak Fa Fui said:
Your Post is about do and donts of CPF members
My reply is “doesn’t stop them does it”
CPF people think they are the authority, they are not, they are not even an extension of the SAPS
I don’t like or get along with CPF members if you really need me to spell it out for you
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Interfere in an arrest as a CPF member and I guarantee you that you will share the cell.
I never said the CPF is an extension of the SAPS. It's there to hold the SAPS to account.

You have never been a member of the SAPS, CPF, WAC nor YAC. When you have experience, come have a chat. Until that you have no idea of the do's and dont's of a CPF. I bet you can't even state the act the CPF falls under. Can you?
 
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