Pope's comments anger Muslims[here it comes again]

[pupa]

P.S - Killing people en mass is not known as peace keeping, in fact it is known as "making war".

I have to slightly dissagree here! Killing "Innocent people" en mass is not war its MURDER! Justified by a sick notion of belief that if you do so under the "hidden agenda" of your God it is acceptable and he is going to reward you with many virgins . How sick! No wonder a certain profit were always on a raping expedition! during his time on earth!

 

[pupa]

It relates more to that they are miraculously defying the odds by disproving the theory of time. If you go 1000 years into the past or future, they would still be on the same cognitive and paradigmatic level...

 

[Nanfeishen]

So Western democratic countries, who,s governments are predominantly Christian by faith arent doing the very same thing today as their ancestors did in ancient history , only with better technology and weapons?
And relating things back to historical scenarios, is quite valid , as history has a nasty habit of repeating itself, and mankind unfortunately hasnt learnt from that.
The leauge of nations was set up to prevent the world going to war for a second time, did we learn , no, the U.N. was set up with the same sort of goals and egenda does it work , no, we still have wars, and eventually there will be another big one , it is just a matter of time.
One mans dictator is another mans peacekeeper, it all depends on your point of view and which side you are on.
There are always two sides to a story , never judge from only one point of view, that is not true judgement, you are judging by western standards ,western ethics, and a sense of morals ingrained through culture ,religion and politics.
To understand something truly, one must be impartial in opinion, non-judgemental and form or have no emotional response to the topic in general.

 

[noxibox]

Hence I'm pointing out that if you want to say that Christians did this 50 years ago, so now it's okay for Muslims to do so...

Christians just attacked Iraq in the recent past. They had the weak excuses first of finding imagined weapons, then of saving the poor Iraqis from old Saddam, these same Christians' former pal and enforcer in the area.

For those who can't follow - Christians didn't do this 50 years ago - they're still engaged in doing exactly this right now. Muslim fanatics are not 50 years behind - they're engaging in exactly the same mayhem as their contempory Christian counterparts. The only real difference is the Christians are much more heavily armed. For now.

We need to have a designated area to send religious fanatics so they can kill each each other. Maybe the surface of the sun.

 

[noxibox]

the U.N. was set up with the same sort of goals and egenda does it work , no, we still have wars, and eventually there will be another big one , it is just a matter of time.

The UN is basically useless because it is effectively controlled by a minority of countries. These same countries effectively control the WTO and IMF.

 

[Nanfeishen]

The UN is basically useless because it is effectively controlled by a minority of countries. These same countries effectively control the WTO and IMF.

Amen to that!

 

[Brenden_E]

So Western democratic countries, who,s governments are predominantly Christian by faith arent doing the very same thing today as their ancestors did in ancient history , only with better technology and weapons?
And relating things back to historical scenarios, is quite valid , as history has a nasty habit of repeating itself, and mankind unfortunately hasnt learnt from that.
The leauge of nations was set up to prevent the world going to war for a second time, did we learn , no, the U.N. was set up with the same sort of goals and egenda does it work , no, we still have wars, and eventually there will be another big one , it is just a matter of time.
One mans dictator is another mans peacekeeper, it all depends on your point of view and which side you are on.
There are always two sides to a story , never judge from only one point of view, that is not true judgement, you are judging by western standards ,western ethics, and a sense of morals ingrained through culture ,religion and politics.
To understand something truly, one must be impartial in opinion, non-judgemental and form or have no emotional response to the topic in general.

You're clearly not understanding what I tried to convey.
Aaaand...you're repeating the same thing over.
Aaaand...you're messages are hard to read

We're in South Africa, which means we're seperated from everyone else "up there". My opinion was formed on facts. I actually read newspapers articles from both sides of the fence

www.cnn.com and
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

Although I have to mention, Al jazeera is far more amusing!

 

[Brenden_E]

Christians just attacked Iraq in the recent past. They had the weak excuses first of finding imagined weapons, then of saving the poor Iraqis from old Saddam, these same Christians' former pal and enforcer in the area.

Recent past, yes, not 50 years back - which was what we were talking about.

 

[noxibox]

It's very true though; what postive aspect has Muslims brought to this world except oil? I can't think of a single thing...

What do you mean by Muslims? We'd have to compile a list of all scientists in the world and look at their contributions to see how they're distributed across groups.

And interesting read - A Critical Look at Science in Iran

Seems that perhaps even countries that are apparently - as we are led to believe - anti-science and reason are maybe not so.

As for what their culture has done in the past - advances in mathematics and astronomy. The preservation of knowledge during the time when the Christian religion was bent on wiping it out.

Christianity has fought tooth and nail to stop progress in its tracks. Today the Christian lunatic fringe in the US is doing everything they can to destroy scientific progress. We have advanced in spite of the Christian religion as a whole because such advances are made by individuals, not any particular religion, and we have largely been successful at keeping the church from regaining its former power. In the US they somehow managed to get 'In God we Trust' emblazoned on everything and 'under god' added to the pledge of allegiance, but they have otherwise been fought off relatively effectively.

 

[Brenden_E]

Just read this off al-jazeera
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8A36ACA6-0CD8-4E92-9DF8-CD716EE03310.htm

Notice how Muslims shot a 70 year old lady for the sole sake of religion. SHe was selflessly helping MUSLIMS and was one of the longest standing helpers at the hospital. Not only that, they shot her in the back. That's about as low as you can go...

"On Friday, a prominent hardline Mogadishu cleric called for Muslims to "hunt down" and kill the pope for his remarks.
"Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim," said Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin during Friday prayers."

Yea, they seem like a peaceloving bunch. They have gone out of their way to prove what the pope said in the first place.

 

[pupa]

Christians just attacked Iraq in the recent past. They had the weak excuses first of finding imagined weapons, then of saving the poor Iraqis from old Saddam, these same Christians' former pal and enforcer in the area.

Your imagination? or are the weapons that dissapeared which could be now stock in Iran or elsewhere? I shed many a tear for the perils of the mid east people that is controlled by these Muslim tyrants or rather Arab natives, low intellects. I will never forget the pictures of an old man sitting outside his hut devastated by a week long fun expedition by Saddam's goons, molesting him and raping his seven woman in the family, for who he cared, under the banner of their leader and their god! And you defend the b@stards, what type are you? one and the same!

 

[Nanfeishen]

Round and round we go
Actually i prefer to avoid the general press other than for the headlines and choose to read books on current affairs or history, which have further reading or articles to refer to as a bibliography. I find them to be generally a little less biased, but thats just my opinion.
Will save the Al jazeera link for good laugh from time to time.
That was fun
Cheers

 

[pupa]

What do you mean by Muslims?

And interesting read - A Critical Look at Science in Iran

We have advanced in spite of the religion as a whole because such advances are made by individuals in spite of the religion.

Believe selectively all you can read, shame? and WE? so you are a muslim! Arabic?, I have nothing against them muslims as those I know are mostly peace loving in other countries but the mideast, I mean true muslims not the sick Arab kind that spread over the world like cancer! or aids! same thing!

 

[noxibox]

Islam should be a driving force for scientific progress


Distorting an Image

 

[Brenden_E]

What do you mean by Muslims?

And interesting read - A Critical Look at Science in Iran

As for what their culture has done in the past - advances in mathematics and astronomy. The preservation of knowledge during the time when the Christian religion was bent on wiping it out.

Christianity has fought tooth and nail to stop progress in its tracks. Today the Christian lunatic fringe in the US is doing everything they can to destroy scientific progress. We have advanced in spite of the religion as a whole because such advances are made by individuals in spite of the religion.

K, seriously, I'm not going to bother with responses if you're going to waffle.

"Christianity has fought tooth and nail to stop progress in its tracks." Yea I guess, and then you woke up from your drunken stupor. The west, which constitutes of Christians for the most part, are by far the greatest contributer to technological progress. The Asian countries are catching up though.

Nevertheless, I can't recall *a single* massive breakthrough that has come from Arabian countries. You speak about their contributions to mathematics and astronomy - that was more than 500 years ago! So in the last 500 years, they decided to take a break?

 

[noxibox]

I will never forget the pictures of an old man sitting outside his hut devastated by a week long fun expedition by Saddam's goons, molesting him and raping his seven woman in the family

these same Christians' former pal and enforcer in the area

Making sure Saddam retained power and that his men were trained in the best techniques of torture. They had also generously assisted South American dictators and the Afrikaner government of South Africa with their great knowledge of pain and death.

 

[pupa]

these same Christians' former pal and enforcer in the area

Making sure Saddam retained power and that his men were trained in the best techniques of torture. They had also generously assisted South American dictators and the Afrikaner government of South Africa with their great knowledge of pain and death.

In your dreams, believe what you want! I for one do not want to debate with a Muslim extremist and/or supporter, defending their perceived holy lifestyle of raping and killing the woman and girls and murdering the innocent, least off all a fake, self potrayed local African Muslim extremist for that matter!

By the way the west tried to change matters in the Mideast, therefore they trusted Saddam! they never thought their efforts would be reversed by a snake of an tyrant called Saddam biting the hand that fed him in the back, Typical Arab Muslim!. I agree they should never have trusted the scum, should have killed them all instead!

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Yeah that's very classy pupa :/

Kill them all huh, nice way of showing people that you're not an extremist either.

 

[Brenden_E]

Yeah that's very classy pupa :/

Kill them all huh, nice way of showing people that you're not an extremist either.

Hehe - we've got a winner

 

[Turtle]

The Pope is a **** stirrer. What did he think the reaction from the islamic world was going to be?

So anyone who criticises the actual, real problems with the Islamic world is just a ****stirrer? Are you saying that nobody should criticise those problems, because we all 'know what the reaction will be'? In other words, we should be bullied by violent Muslims into not speaking out for our beliefs in concepts like freedom of speech, individual rights, peace and gender equality? Sorry, but that's just the kind of "****stirrer" we need plenty more of.

To get closer to the topic here:What do you think the response would have been if the New York times had run a series of cartoons lampooning JC? What wuold the response of christianity been? In that nut house of a country Id be willing to bet their would have been violence brother.

Regardless of whether or not you are correct in claiming that there would be violence, your argument fails either way. (1) If we assume you are correct, your point (which looks like a typical attempt to draw moral equivalence) fails completely because that violence would also be just as wrong, and NY Time's right to publish such cartoons would be equally valid and a protected form of speech. (2) It's far more likely that there would be no violence, because Americans have a much greater sense of freedom of speech than the Muslim world: JC and Christianity get totally lampooned in the media and on the Internet and pretty much everywhere throughout the United States every single day and nobody responds at all --- that kind of freedom and acceptance (while certainly not perfect) is really pretty much part of life there. (Google Videos, as just one example of billions, carry free Penn & Teller videos (also shown on TV) totally blasting Christianity, please remind me where were the riots in response to that?)

The US may not be perfect, but please, drawing moral equivalence to the reactions and behaviours and demands of extremist Muslims is completely ridiculous on the face of it.