Private estates making big money from speeding fines

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Still think a combination of both is best. With my previously mentioned 2km trek to the gate, if they added more speed bumps I'd have to move somewhere else, or buy a hovercraft or something....
indeed, a combination would be best, force people to slow down and get to fine those via who really try to flout others safety.

there are lots of ways to do speed bumps though, i agree many of them are annoying. i prefer the larger ones that allow you to drive over relatively easy at low speeds, but nail you if you try speed over it, its just there to keep the speed down, not stop you. some are just harsh no matter how you go over it, poorly designed. i suppose the different ride heights and lengths make it difficult to please everyone.

for pure safety i would request a speed bump at a location any day. its why we see them in front of schools and old age homes etc..

to penalize someone a speed camera is picture perfect.
 

supersunbird

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indeed, a combination would be best, force people to slow down and get to fine those via who really try to flout others safety.

there are lots of ways to do speed bumps though, i agree many of them are annoying. i prefer the larger ones that allow you to drive over relatively easy at low speeds, but nail you if you try speed over it, its just there to keep the speed down, not stop you. some are just harsh no matter how you go over it, poorly designed. i suppose the different ride heights and lengths make it difficult to please everyone.

for pure safety i would request a speed bump at a location any day. its why we see them in front of schools and old age homes etc..

to penalize someone a speed camera is picture perfect.
And if they keep speeding the fine is not big enough, or not escalating to a big amount quick enough.
 

Ponderer

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indeed, a combination would be best, force people to slow down and get to fine those via who really try to flout others safety.

there are lots of ways to do speed bumps though, i agree many of them are annoying. i prefer the larger ones that allow you to drive over relatively easy at low speeds, but nail you if you try speed over it, its just there to keep the speed down, not stop you. some are just harsh no matter how you go over it, poorly designed. i suppose the different ride heights and lengths make it difficult to please everyone.

for pure safety i would request a speed bump at a location any day. its why we see them in front of schools and old age homes etc..

to penalize someone a speed camera is picture perfect.
The reason for speeding fines is not to make money.
The reason is squarely to prevent people from speeding.
I cannot understand why you are unable to understand that.
 

Myrrdin

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The reason for speeding fines is not to make money.
The reason is squarely to prevent people from speeding.
I cannot understand why you are unable to understand that.
Every study ever conducted about the effectiveness of speeding fines have come to the conclusion that as a deterrent to speeding it is ineffective. Just like the death penalty is ineffective in preventing murders. A managed speed awareness program (visible policing, caution signs etc) and speed deterrent devices (like speed bumps, rumble strips etc) have been proven to be much more effective for the prevention of speeding than issuing fines. One study even found that creating double fine zones had little or no effect on the amount of accidents or the incidents of speeding.

Your post highlights the very problem at the core of BC's. They become a law onto their own where they can make assertions like fines prevent speeding and you cannot change their minds. They base draconian rules on feelings instead of proper scientific study.
One of the founding premises for a gated community or estate living which every BC ever plugs is security. Statistics however have proven the opposite. You know who else likes safety and undisturbed living, criminals, sex offenders etc. The number of stash houses discovered in gated communities have increased proportionately to the increase in gated communities. As soon as you stop the real law at the gate it is naive to expect only the lawful will live within your community.
I have yet to encounter a BC that does even a basic background check on residents within the community. Or a criminal record check, or even just check a sex offender register.

I can continue but I think I have made my point.
 

ambroseg1

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Every study ever conducted about the effectiveness of speeding fines have come to the conclusion that as a deterrent to speeding it is ineffective. Just like the death penalty is ineffective in preventing murders. A managed speed awareness program (visible policing, caution signs etc) and speed deterrent devices (like speed bumps, rumble strips etc) have been proven to be much more effective for the prevention of speeding than issuing fines. One study even found that creating double fine zones had little or no effect on the amount of accidents or the incidents of speeding.

Your post highlights the very problem at the core of BC's. They become a law onto their own where they can make assertions like fines prevent speeding and you cannot change their minds. They base draconian rules on feelings instead of proper scientific study.
One of the founding premises for a gated community or estate living which every BC ever plugs is security. Statistics however have proven the opposite. You know who else likes safety and undisturbed living, criminals, sex offenders etc. The number of stash houses discovered in gated communities have increased proportionately to the increase in gated communities. As soon as you stop the real law at the gate it is naive to expect only the lawful will live within your community.
I have yet to encounter a BC that does even a basic background check on residents within the community. Or a criminal record check, or even just check a sex offender register.

I can continue but I think I have made my point.
This needs to be quoted for posterity, and for the ignorant.
 

Ponderer

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Every study ever conducted about the effectiveness of speeding fines have come to the conclusion that as a deterrent to speeding it is ineffective. Just like the death penalty is ineffective in preventing murders. A managed speed awareness program (visible policing, caution signs etc) and speed deterrent devices (like speed bumps, rumble strips etc) have been proven to be much more effective for the prevention of speeding than issuing fines. One study even found that creating double fine zones had little or no effect on the amount of accidents or the incidents of speeding.

Your post highlights the very problem at the core of BC's. They become a law onto their own where they can make assertions like fines prevent speeding and you cannot change their minds. They base draconian rules on feelings instead of proper scientific study.
One of the founding premises for a gated community or estate living which every BC ever plugs is security. Statistics however have proven the opposite. You know who else likes safety and undisturbed living, criminals, sex offenders etc. The number of stash houses discovered in gated communities have increased proportionately to the increase in gated communities. As soon as you stop the real law at the gate it is naive to expect only the lawful will live within your community.
I have yet to encounter a BC that does even a basic background check on residents within the community. Or a criminal record check, or even just check a sex offender register.

I can continue but I think I have made my point.
So punishment is not an effective deterrent?
Seriously?
 

Myrrdin

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Recidivism is one of the most fundamental concepts in criminal justice. It refers to a person's relapse into criminal behavior, often after the person receives sanctions or undergoes intervention for a previous crime.
Recidivism for people that have been in prison is 68% within 3 years, 79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years.
Recidivism for people that have had a speeding fine is 93% within 6 months.
 

Ponderer

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legalized extortion is big business in SA.
In that case, the law is an extortion business that is practiced all over the world?

I mean, what is all this nonsense of sentences to pay fines, sentences to jail-time, sentences to be executed, .... all about.
They clearly don't work.
 
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Sollie

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lets play pretend.

you have a kid in school where they cross the road to get to the sports field.

would you rather have a speed bump forcing cars to slow down at the crossing, or a camera taking pictures of cars not slowing down over the crossing.

which one is more safe.
Well, you could do like the lady in her BMW that did not slow down for the bump, went over it at speed, lost contol, took off her suspension on the curb, took out the grass on the pavement, took out my fence, came to rest against a tree she pushed over onto a massive rock in my front yard.

So which way do you wish to play it? If there were kids on the pavement ...
 

Myrrdin

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In that case, the law is an extortion business that is practiced all over the world?

I mean, what is all this nonsense of sentences to pay fines, sentences to jail-time, sentences to be executed, .... all about.
They clearly don't work.
100% correct. Edit: The penalty (fines) system is an extortion business that is practiced all over the world.

I urge you to research the cases where a $10 parking ticket has ended up in a poor person ending up in jail for 6 months because they could not pay a $10 fine.
 
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Ponderer

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100% correct.

I urge you to research the cases where a $10 parking ticket has ended up in a poor person ending up in jail for 6 months because they could not pay a $10 fine.
So there is no reason to obey the law.
Fear of punishment does not work.
Yes?
No?
 

Sollie

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indeed, a combination would be best, force people to slow down and get to fine those via who really try to flout others safety.

there are lots of ways to do speed bumps though, i agree many of them are annoying. i prefer the larger ones that allow you to drive over relatively easy at low speeds, but nail you if you try speed over it, its just there to keep the speed down, not stop you. some are just harsh no matter how you go over it, poorly designed. i suppose the different ride heights and lengths make it difficult to please everyone.

for pure safety i would request a speed bump at a location any day. its why we see them in front of schools and old age homes etc..

to penalize someone a speed camera is picture perfect.
Any plans to educate our local municipality on speed bumps? They're experts are crawl speed or take our your suspension for all normal road vehicle types.
 

Myrrdin

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So there is no reason to obey the law. (Disagree) I would be concerned if the only reason you follow the law is because of fear of punishment.
Fear of punishment does not work.(Agree) Example if you sin you will burn in hell forever.
Yes?
No?
Yes.
The law should reflect values that are common among a group of people that agree to abide and see the value of the laws. Should someone break the law a program to install and reaffirm those values in the individual should be followed. That might in part include punishment which may be in the form of a fine. But a threat of punishment without a consultative process is meaningless.
 

Ponderer

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Yes.
The law should reflect values that are common among a group of people that agree to abide and see the value of the laws. Should someone break the law a program to install and reaffirm those values in the individual should be followed. That might in part include punishment which may be in the form of a fine. But a threat of punishment without a consultative process is meaningless.
An example.

Guys are having a few drinks at some or other pub.
All of them are aware (know) that driving under the influence is wrong, but they do it anyway.
Every now and then, some of them get fined for drunken driving, but it doesn't really deter any of them.

Then they up (increase) the penalty for driving under the influence.
Instead of a fine, the penalty for driving under the influence is now a fine and a minimum of 6 months in jail, and possibly up to 2 years in jail.

The same guys are now no longer so flippant about driving under the influence.
Why?
Because they fear the new/higher/increased level of punishment for transgressing that particular law.
Simple as that.

Saying that "the threat of punishment is meaningless" is just plain stupid.
 

Myrrdin

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Aaaaaaaand.........................................................
Studies and statistics mean nothing. We will do as we wish.
We will make up straw men to validate what we want to believe.
 

Myrrdin

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An example.

Guys are having a few drinks at some or other pub.
All of them are aware (know) that driving under the influence is wrong, but they do it anyway.
Every now and then, some of them get fined for drunken driving, but it doesn't really deter any of them.

Then they up (increase) the penalty for driving under the influence.
Instead of a fine, the penalty for driving under the influence is now a fine and a minimum of 6 months in jail, and possibly up to 2 years in jail.

The same guys are now no longer so flippant about driving under the influence.
Why?
Because they fear the new/higher/increased level of punishment for transgressing that particular law.
Simple as that.

Saying that "the threat of punishment is meaningless" is just plain stupid.
Please provide the study where that scenario is proven.
 

Ponderer

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Aaaaaaaand.........................................................
Studies and statistics mean nothing. We will do as we wish.
We will make up straw men to validate what we want to believe.
Studies and statistics are not unlike bikini's.
It hints to what lies underneath, but does not reveal it.
 

Myrrdin

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Terwyl ons nou gesegdes opmaak. Ons het n gesegde in afrikaans wat se "Ja kan n perd na water toe lei, maar as jy nie sy kop in die modder druk en sy hol suig nie, kan jy hom nie vorseer om die water te drink nie'

Translation "Do as you wish."
I am out. Going to drink a beer it is after all Friday afternoon.
 
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