Probe launched after Durban teacher tells pupils white people 'genetically smarter'

[technofool]

We need to realize that everybody is entitled to their own opinion. No opinion is right or wrong, better or worse than any other opinion. Opinions never progressed any disagreement nor can they solve any of our problems in SA.
If you want to evaluate an opinion or compare it to another opinion you evaluate the reasons and evidence that underpin each opinion. The point of higher education is to evaluate evidence. Nobody ever earned a worthwhile degree for their "opinions".

 

[upup]

Where is the eFF , they will burn down the school for political points.

 

[Napalm2880]

I don't think anyone with that grammar can judge other's relative intelligence

Scientifically anyone of any race can be smarter than any other race. We haven't differed evolutionary that much from each other. The biggest difference between intelligence is not intelligence but the cultural and generational norms that prohibit critical thinking but rather promote group think.

Scientifically this is not actually the case. Cultural influences amongst other factors have had a massive influence on the genetic makeup of human groups around the world.

There are measurable differences between population groups - for example, there are parts of asia where the group average is 95% lactose intolerant. This extends into intelligence, physical abilities, physical appearance, etc.

I don't read much but I found these two books to be mind-blowing.

• The Violinist's Thumb: And Other Lost Tales of Love, War, and Genius, as Written by Our Genetic Code
• Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind

 

[skimread]

Scientifically this is not actually the case. Cultural influences amongst other factors have had a massive influence on the genetic makeup of human groups around the world.

There are measurable differences between population groups - for example, there are parts of asia where the group average is 95% lactose intolerant. This extends into intelligence, physical abilities, physical appearance, etc.

I don't read much but I found these two books to be mind-blowing.

• The Violinist's Thumb: And Other Lost Tales of Love, War, and Genius, as Written by Our Genetic Code
• Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind

you can't use historical stats. Environments differ. If you take a white person who never had human contact and was raised by wolves and you take a black person who went to Harvard. Which person is smarter. In the end its down to cultural differences of how much time you spend on intellectual pursuits and not racial differences

 

[technofool]

you can't use historical stats. Environments differ. If you take a white person who never had human contact and was raised by wolves and you take a black person who went to Harvard. Which person is smarter. In the end its down to cultural differences of how much time you spend on intellectual pursuits and not racial differences

The point of IQ testing is to measure innate cognitive ability independent of training. That is why IQ score does not change appreciably from childhood to adulthood.
If a child is malnourished, brain development is stunted and IQ is depressed for life. No amount of schooling can reverse that.

 

[Techne]

Not the brightest this one. Those coloureds from Asia are smarter than whites... and more numerous. Better learn Chinese and coding...

 

[Techne]

We need to realize that everybody is entitled to their own opinion. No opinion is right or wrong, better or worse than any other opinion. Opinions never progressed any disagreement nor can they solve any of our problems in SA.
If you want to evaluate an opinion or compare it to another opinion you evaluate the reasons and evidence that underpin each opinion. The point of higher education is to evaluate evidence. Nobody ever earned a worthwhile degree for their "opinions".

If this opinion is not wrong then it is stupid and a testament to our useless education system.

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

you can't use historical stats. Environments differ. If you take a white person who never had human contact and was raised by wolves and you take a black person who went to Harvard. Which person is smarter. In the end its down to cultural differences of how much time you spend on intellectual pursuits and not racial differences

You confuse intelligence with knowledge . Don't feel bad though. Many humans do that. Some on purpose (political correctness) while other because do not have the insight.
The simplest definition of intelligence is: 'The ability of a system to gather knowledge and apply the gathered knowledge, in order to improve itself ' (read: become even more intelligent).
As you can see from my simple definition, in essence intelligence is a self feeding loop. The more intelligent a system is (or person for that matter), the more "aware" will become of the consequences of its own intelligence (i.e. actions).
Furthermore, in animals and humans intelligence is generated by the brain. Actually by only a small portion of the brain called 'Neocortex'. This is the upper most layer. In truly intelligent people it makes more than 10% of the total brain mass. (The neocortex itself has 6 layers and not all are involved in intelligence but lets not complicate things).
Intelligence changes throughout a persons life, peaking in the 20's. The maximum level which intelligence can reach in a living organism, is determined by genetic factors only and nothing else . Of course there are many other factors which can hinder the ability to reach this maximum level. (i.e. poor nutrition, brain damage, chronic medication/drugs, etc.)
Knowledge on the other hand increases all the time, until the storage device (brain) has some malfunction due to trauma, disease, old age etc.
To come back to your example: Of course the Black person will be smarter but that is not the point.

 

[konfab]

The real issue is nothing more than we put so much weight on intelligence in the modern world.

How is that an issue? Would you prefer that society valued you at your ability to do manual labour?

 

[Willie Trombone]

How is that an issue? Would you prefer that society valued you at your ability to do manual labour?

Why would that be a good thing? No, I'd prefer that society valued you by your character and morals. Now tell me, why do you think intelligence should be the meter stick of value, given that it's largely genetic?

 

[konfab]

Why would that be a good thing? No, I'd prefer that society valued you by your character and morals. Now tell me, why do you think intelligence should be the meter stick of value, given that it's largely genetic?

Because value should be determined by economics. Not feelings. Value is a function of demand and scarcity.

A doctor can quite easily do the work of a bricklayer. A bricklayer cannot do the work of a doctor.

Does this mean things like character and morals have no value? No.

I drive 25 km to another town to go to a car mechanic because I trust his judgement and his ability.

But that doesn't mean he should get paid as much my dentist, who I also trust.?

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

Why would that be a good thing? No, I'd prefer that society valued you by your character and morals. Now tell me, why do you think intelligence should be the meter stick of value, given that it's largely genetic?

Because intelligence is the "alpha and the omega". The beginning and the end. You are able to communicate with me, by tipping on some machine, because of intelligence. Our entire civilization is based on intelligence. If humans had the intelligence level of a fly, none of the things you see around you would have existed. In Europe children are tested for intelligence and that decide to which school they will go. Children below 80 will get reassessed and eventually end up into a "special needs" school, where they receive extra attention and the pace of learning is slower. In South (Africa) on the other hand....

 

[RedViking]

Are white people also genetically racist?

 

[Willie Trombone]

Because value should be determined by economics. Not feelings. Value is a function of demand and scarcity.

A doctor can quite easily do the work of a bricklayer. A bricklayer cannot do the work of a doctor.

Does this mean things like character and morals have no value? No.

I drive 25 km to another town to go to a car mechanic because I trust his judgement and his ability.

But that doesn't mean he should get paid as much my dentist, who I also trust.?

Now you're just equating value with money. Another mistake society makes.

 

[Willie Trombone]

Because intelligence is the "alpha and the omega". The beginning and the end. You are able to communicate with me, by tipping on some machine, because of intelligence. Our entire civilization is based on intelligence.

I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing that it's not right.

If humans had the intelligence level of a fly, none of the things you see around you would have existed.

For all our intelligence, how did we end up in the mess we see around us? Seems we value certain types of intelligence above others

In Europe children are tested for intelligence and that decide to which school they will go. Children below 80 will get reassessed and eventually end up into a "special needs" school, where they receive extra attention and the pace of learning is slower. In South (Africa) on the other hand....

No problem with that idea, I have a problem with looking down your nose at less intelligent people as if they're less valuable. Not all value can be easily quantified in Rands and cents.

 

[rietrot]

The point of IQ testing is to measure innate cognitive ability independent of training. That is why IQ score does not change appreciably from childhood to adulthood.
If a child is malnourished, brain development is stunted and IQ is depressed for life. No amount of schooling can reverse that.

Yes but it is BS especially if you give it to someone who's never seen an IQ test before. If you practice a bit you can get closer to your real score. And education does help, especially maths.

 

[Willie Trombone]

https://www.popsci.com/why-iq-is-flawed/

Too many of us use the terms “IQ” and “intelligence” as if they’re interchangeable. They’re not. An IQ score isn’t a magical signifier of smarts; it merely quantifies your ability to take a particular kind of test. Wealthy, white Westerners tend to perform among the best on these exams, but that doesn’t mean they’re smarter than the rest of the world. Research increasingly indicates that the advantages that group enjoys—like better education and healthcare—set them up for success on such evaluations. And it doesn’t hurt that the most expensive education is generally geared toward improving one’s ability to fill in the proper bubbles. Access to money, school, and medicine can all change apparent acumen—but IQ ignores inherent intellect. Race In some parts of the world, kids given IQ assessments were unfamiliar even with the concept of standardized testing, let alone with the question format or subject matter. The established correlation between race and IQ doesn’t reveal an inherent genetic advantage. It shows how closely your score is tied to health, wealth, and access to education.
Disease
Research suggests that the physical toll of illness prevents proper brain development. So it makes sense that people in disease-prone areas with poor healthcare systems wouldn’t score as well on these types of examinations. Individuals with high IQ scores tend to live longer, but probably not because they make smarter medical choices.
Education
For every additional year of school, the average person can notch another two to three IQ points, which often helps those in richer regions outperform their poorer peers. Early childhood, when the brain is still developing, is especially crucial. But even older children adopted into more-educated homes can gain around 12 points over biological siblings.

The Flynn EffectSara Chodosh
The Flynn Effect
Today, the average IQ in Kenya hovers around 72, slightly lower than a Brit would have scored in 1948. Marks reliably rise in developed nations; increasing access to education, healthcare, and food improves living conditions and fuels brain development. The so-called Flynn effect is leveling off in the West, but Kenya is still on an upward trend, notching 25 points since testing began in the ’80s. Many impoverished countries have yet to turn this corner. When they do, we should expect to see a great IQ equalizing.

 

[skimread]

The simplest definition of intelligence is: 'The ability of a system to gather knowledge and apply the gathered knowledge, in order to improve itself ' (read: become even more intelligent).

It's an interesting discussion. I still think environment plays a role. Change my mind for a few examples.

Let say you get the exact same nutrition and childhood upbringing as everyone around you.

1. By that intelligence definition if you live in an environment (country) where you constantly require a fight or flight thought because of a war torn economy with 90% unemployment ,even if you have gathered knowledge, you cannot apply it as your focus is on daily survival of getting food on the table and making sure others don't steal from you. You are not intelligent as you cannot apply knowledge you read in books

2. By that intelligence definition all these stupid politicians like that SARS protect me from yourself lady,Zuma or Malema are geniuses. They don't have degrees or qualifications but acquired social knowledge to get where they are. They have improved themselves to incredible wealth. They don't waste their efforts on acquiring knowledge that doesn't reward them. They are intelligent as they applied social knowledge. Competitively the person with legitimate degree but no social connections is unemployed as he cannot apply his book knowledge.

3.By that intelligence definition If you live in a country where everyone has an IQ of 200 but you have 140. You can gain knowledge but will always perform worse at a job then everyone else. You are not intelligent because relative to others you will always finish last in every job application test so and the only job you can get is janitor so you cannot apply knowledge you read in books in intellectual career..

Do you not agree that if your environment prohibits you from applying knowledge and thus by your intelligence definition you are not intelligent?

 

[Herr der Verboten]

She, the teacher should have gone with 'I know that I know nothing'.

 

[Napalm2880]

Do you not agree that if your environment prohibits you from applying knowledge and thus by your intelligence definition you are not intelligent?

Environmental factors influence your epigenetics and traits such as intelligence. An even more interesting topic is transgenerational epigenetic inheritance where if for example you come from a family that was malnourished for a period of time - say during WW2, or a long line ancestors who were alcoholics, it can have a negative impact on your intelligence and your childrens intelligence.