Probe launched after Durban teacher tells pupils white people 'genetically smarter'

[itareanlnotani]

Not the brightest this one. Those coloureds from Asia are smarter than whites... and more numerous. Better learn Chinese and coding...

Great news - 我会写中文和代码。

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

https://www.popsci.com/why-iq-is-flawed/
...
Wealthy, white Westerners tend to perform among the best on these exams.
...

Actually the poor, rural Chinese kids, beats your Westerners time and again. Not by much but they beat them. On the other hand, I agree: IQ test have their issues but those issues are not as bad as the" politically correct" people want them to be!

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

It's an interesting discussion. I still think environment plays a role. Change my mind for a few examples.

Let say you get the exact same nutrition and childhood upbringing as everyone around you.

1. By that intelligence definition if you live in an environment (country) where you constantly require a fight or flight thought because of a war torn economy with 90% unemployment ,even if you have gathered knowledge, you cannot apply it as your focus is on daily survival of getting food on the table and making sure others don't steal from you. You are not intelligent as you cannot apply knowledge you read in books

2. By that intelligence definition all these stupid politicians like that SARS protect me from yourself lady,Zuma or Malema are geniuses. They don't have degrees or qualifications but acquired social knowledge to get where they are. They have improved themselves to incredible wealth. They don't waste their efforts on acquiring knowledge that doesn't reward them. They are intelligent as they applied social knowledge. Competitively the person with legitimate degree but no social connections is unemployed as he cannot apply his book knowledge.

3.By that intelligence definition If you live in a country where everyone has an IQ of 200 but you have 140. You can gain knowledge but will always perform worse at a job then everyone else. You are not intelligent because relative to others you will always finish last in every job application test so and the only job you can get is janitor so you cannot apply knowledge you read in books in intellectual career..

Do you not agree that if your environment prohibits you from applying knowledge and thus by your intelligence definition you are not intelligent?

Huh... You have some unorthodox thinking in there. Confuse things all over the place and compare apples with pears.
The environment/nature, does not prohibit anything. It has nothing to do with intelligence. In a war torn economy, a highly intelligent child has a better chance to get somewhere in life than a non intelligent child. From that P. O. V. nature seems cruel. Both systems (children in your example), will gather knowledge at the speed permitted by their innate intelligence levels and both systems will use such gathered knowledge according to their innate intelligence levels. All things equal, it will be a matter of time until a difference will become apparent!
Things are more difficult when it comes to comparing systems which were trained in very different environments, but it is possible. If you are in AI systems and deep-learning algorithms, you should know what I am on about. Intelligence is such a powerful and universal concept, one day it will end up changing itself! Do you understand the implications thereof? Read again my definition.

 

[technofool]

https://www.popsci.com/why-iq-is-flawed/

Too many of us use the terms “IQ” and “intelligence” as if they’re interchangeable. They’re not. An IQ score isn’t a magical signifier of smarts; it merely quantifies your ability to take a particular kind of test. Wealthy, white Westerners tend to perform among the best on these exams, but that doesn’t mean they’re smarter than the rest of the world. Research increasingly indicates that the advantages that group enjoys—like better education and healthcare—set them up for success on such evaluations. And it doesn’t hurt that the most expensive education is generally geared toward improving one’s ability to fill in the proper bubbles. Access to money, school, and medicine can all change apparent acumen—but IQ ignores inherent intellect. Race In some parts of the world, kids given IQ assessments were unfamiliar even with the concept of standardized testing, let alone with the question format or subject matter. The established correlation between race and IQ doesn’t reveal an inherent genetic advantage. It shows how closely your score is tied to health, wealth, and access to education.
Disease
Research suggests that the physical toll of illness prevents proper brain development. So it makes sense that people in disease-prone areas with poor healthcare systems wouldn’t score as well on these types of examinations. Individuals with high IQ scores tend to live longer, but probably not because they make smarter medical choices.
Education
For every additional year of school, the average person can notch another two to three IQ points, which often helps those in richer regions outperform their poorer peers. Early childhood, when the brain is still developing, is especially crucial. But even older children adopted into more-educated homes can gain around 12 points over biological siblings.

The Flynn EffectSara Chodosh
The Flynn Effect
Today, the average IQ in Kenya hovers around 72, slightly lower than a Brit would have scored in 1948. Marks reliably rise in developed nations; increasing access to education, healthcare, and food improves living conditions and fuels brain development. The so-called Flynn effect is leveling off in the West, but Kenya is still on an upward trend, notching 25 points since testing began in the ’80s. Many impoverished countries have yet to turn this corner. When they do, we should expect to see a great IQ equalizing.

That article was a fascinating study in bad science. There are no references and causation / correlation is confused all the way through. There is a strong hint in the first sentence. Intelligence Quotient (IQ) is designed to measure intelligence and it is and has been for decades the most reliable and predictive metric we have to measure humans capability to solve problems.
In my day education was all about transfer of facts into young minds. Facts, therefore knowledge was rare and valuable. In university you learned to make decisions based on those facts.
Nowadays facts have almost no value because Google gives them away freely. Today being educated means beang able to differentiate between facts and fake facts.

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

Environmental factors influence your epigenetics and traits such as intelligence. An even more interesting topic is transgenerational epigenetic inheritance where if for example you come from a family that was malnourished for a period of time - say during WW2, or a long line ancestors who were alcoholics, it can have a negative impact on your intelligence and your childrens intelligence.

Good post!

 

[skimread]

Huh... You have some unorthodox thinking in there. Confuse things all over the place and compare apples with pears.
The environment/nature, does not prohibit anything. It has nothing to do with intelligence. In a war torn economy, a highly intelligent child has a better chance to get somewhere in life than a non intelligent child. From that P. O. V. nature seems cruel. Both systems (children in your example), will gather knowledge at the speed permitted by their innate intelligence levels and both systems will use such gathered knowledge according to their innate intelligence levels. All things equal, it will be a matter of time until a difference will become apparent!
Things are more difficult when it comes to comparing systems which were trained in very different environments, but it is possible. If you are in AI systems and deep-learning algorithms, you should know what I am on about. Intelligence is such a powerful and universal concept, one day it will end up changing itself! Do you understand the implications thereof? Read again my definition.

I limit it to adults not children. I explicitly say same childhood and nutrition.

What about the other two examples then?

 

[RonSwanson]

You confuse intelligence with knowledge . Don't feel bad though. Many humans do that. Some on purpose (political correctness) while other because do not have the insight.
The simplest definition of intelligence is: 'The ability of a system to gather knowledge and apply the gathered knowledge, in order to improve itself ' (read: become even more intelligent).
As you can see from my simple definition, in essence intelligence is a self feeding loop. The more intelligent a system is (or person for that matter), the more "aware" will become of the consequences of its own intelligence (i.e. actions).
Furthermore, in animals and humans intelligence is generated by the brain. Actually by only a small portion of the brain called 'Neocortex'. This is the upper most layer. In truly intelligent people it makes more than 10% of the total brain mass. (The neocortex itself has 6 layers and not all are involved in intelligence but lets not complicate things).
Intelligence changes throughout a persons life, peaking in the 20's. The maximum level which intelligence can reach in a living organism, is determined by genetic factors only and nothing else . Of course there are many other factors which can hinder the ability to reach this maximum level. (i.e. poor nutrition, brain damage, chronic medication/drugs, etc.)
Knowledge on the other hand increases all the time, until the storage device (brain) has some malfunction due to trauma, disease, old age etc.
To come back to your example: Of course the Black person will be smarter but that is not the point.

I'm not sure that I agree with your "simplest definition of intelligence". It addresses four factors: the gathering of knowledge, the application of knowledge, and the application of knowledge towards a desired outcome. Far too simplistic. Where does wisdom come in? I could somewhat agree with the first two, but do not agree with the last two, they require not only intelligence, but wisdom.

 

[Knyro]

Not the brightest this one. Those coloureds from Asia are smarter than whites... and more numerous. Better learn Chinese and coding...

No thanks. 僕にとって日本語の方が良い。

 

[Willie Trombone]

That article was a fascinating study in bad science. There are no references and causation / correlation is confused all the way through. There is a strong hint in the first sentence. Intelligence Quotient (IQ) is designed to measure intelligence and it is and has been for decades the most reliable and predictive metric we have to measure humans capability to solve problems.
In my day education was all about transfer of facts into young minds. Facts, therefore knowledge was rare and valuable. In university you learned to make decisions based on those facts.
Nowadays facts have almost no value because Google gives them away freely. Today being educated means beang able to differentiate between facts and fake facts.

It was a magazine article LOL. If you want, Google scholar will find what you seek

 

[technofool]

No point in quoting only "a magazine article LOL" if it doesn't bolster your argument.

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

I'm not sure that I agree with your "simplest definition of intelligence". It addresses four factors: the gathering of knowledge, the application of knowledge, and the application of knowledge towards a desired outcome. Far too simplistic. Where does wisdom come in? I could somewhat agree with the first two, but do not agree with the last two, they require not only intelligence, but wisdom.

There are many definitions of wisdom. Which one is yours?
Smart, wise, brilliant, clever, etc are all popular expressions refering to:
1. Intelligence
2. Knowledge
3. A combination of the two.
In most instances is point 3. If you are interested in AI and intelligence in general, here is a link I just got from one of the forums I frequent:
https://singularityhub.com/2019/08/...-neuroscience-are-driving-each-other-forward/

 

[Urist]

Anyone who thinks that someone from a certain race is by default smarter than someone from another race does not understand how bell curves work and probably falls way down on the spectrum for humanity in general.
It's the same stupid mentality that leads to people thinking that trying to enforce equality of outcome is fair.

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

Anyone who thinks that someone from a certain race is by default smarter than someone from another race does not understand how bell curves work and probably falls way down on the spectrum for humanity in general.
It's the same stupid mentality that leads to people thinking that trying to enforce equality of outcome is fair.

Nevermind who is better than who. I am interested to hear what is your definition of "smart". I presume if you use the word, you have some definition for it.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

In my night school class there was white boy in the class and he did get the baddest marks and he was kuk dom i think he did also fail so its a lie to say white ppl are more clever then black ppl coz we had a black girl who did get the most points and the kallits did also do ok thank you

Fukk off, AFS.....

 

[Willie Trombone]

No point in quoting only "a magazine article LOL" if it doesn't bolster your argument.

Your standards. Not mine.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Environmental factors influence your epigenetics and traits such as intelligence.... or a long line ancestors who were alcoholics, it can have a negative impact on your intelligence and your children's intelligence.

Exactly what seems to have happened with @mushroom

 

[Urist]

Nevermind who is better than who. I am interested to hear what is your definition of "smart". I presume if you use the word, you have some definition for it.

Mental capacity? Intelligence? but also creativity and ability to function in a complex system, accumulated knowledge. You could break it down and get into a similar pointless argument the discussion of "what is art" usually dissolves into.
I think IQ is important but it is also a part of something bigger that cannot be measured that easily, it does however tell you what your physical limits are in certain fields, which is useful.

 

[technofool]

Anyone who thinks that someone from a certain race is by default smarter than someone from another race does not understand how bell curves work and probably falls way down on the spectrum for humanity in general.
It's the same stupid mentality that leads to people thinking that trying to enforce equality of outcome is fair.

The problem occurs when we need to run a country and policy is shaped for IQ=100 but our nation has IQ=77. We are up in arms because our kids cannot 'read for meaning' at age 12 but that is perfectly expected for IQ=77. Especially where the school curriculum is designed for IQ=100. USA has the same problem.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/california-black-education-failure/

 

[Mila]

So what were the teacher's exact words?

 

[technofool]

@Sl8er @surface @Sollie

This thread is useless without standard IQ map. High IQ people, please oblige us again?

Don't fcking jinx it for all of us now!
#JustCan'tLiveWithIt

The one with the purple area? Yes pls!

Right at the start of this thread a number of posters disparaged an IQ graph and by implication the people who post it. I assume this graph has been debunked as false by these posters or do they just object to facts they don't like? There seems to be a wave of anti-intellectualism rising up from people who cannot tell fact from fake.