Property fixtures & fittings when buying a house

[Erohann]

When buying a property and the OTP states the two following points:
- includes all fixtures and fittings
- voetstoots

is it reasonable to expect a garage motor to be in a working condition? Can one demand from the seller that it must be in a working condition after discovering the chain is broken?

 

[pinball wizard]

is it reasonable to expect a garage motor to be in a working condition? Can one demand from the seller that it must be in a working condition after discovering the chain is broken?

Did you check the operational status of the garage door before signing the otp?
Can you reasonably prove that it was working at that point and has subsequently been broken?

As in: the condition it was in at the time of signing is what you as the buyer was happy to purchase.

The voetstoots clause is to cover exactly this, what is anticipated that you as the buyer checked and are happy with. You can't come after the fact for something that was broken then, but you didn't check.

 

[Paul Kemp]

In my mind voetstoets would exclude a working garage motor as long as the door can be opened and closed. Where do you draw the line on these things.
Fixtures and fittings would be curtain rails, blinds, light fittings etc.

Edit: correction, furniture and fittings includes All electrical items and the garage doors would need to have been excluded.

I’ve just sold my place and had our garage door motors serviced. More of a decency thing than contractual for me.

 

[Steamy Tom]

I would say it is a fair assumption to expect a gate/garage door motor to work unless it is explicitly stated as not working and as such documented by the seller in the OTP

The seller would be aware if it wasn't working and is expected to disclose issues and not cover them up.

I don't think voetstoots is such a thing anymore on a house sale really, unless the issues are specifically stated.

 

[Quintrix]

This should be listed in the known defects list that should be provided by the seller

 

[pinball wizard]

This should be listed in the known defects list that should be provided by the seller

The voetstoots clause is there to protect the seller should they be unaware or forget something. The onus is on the buyer and their agent in this case.

 

[xrapidx]

What is the legal implications to buy or sell a property “voetstoots”?

"Voetstoots" has its origins in South Africa's Roman-Dutch law heritage and translates to: "to push a thing sold with one's foot to indicate delivery and not come back with complaints later". This means to sell or buy a property "as it stands" or in the condition in which the property is at the...

honeyattorneys.co.za

 

[Erohann]

Did you check the operational status of the garage door before signing the otp?
Can you reasonably prove that it was working at that point and has subsequently been broken?

As in: the condition it was in at the time of signing is what you as the buyer was happy to purchase.

The voetstoots clause is to cover exactly this, what is anticipated that you as the buyer checked and are happy with. You can't come after the fact for something that was broken then, but you didn't check.

I did not check prior to signing. That is on me. Lesson learnt.
I assume it was not working as the guy bought the property on auction to flip it. I have no idea/proof if he himself has actually ever set foot there. Not trying to say he broke it subsequently either.

If the broken motor is my problem, I am content to accept that. Simply seeking clarity after a friend advised that all "fixtures and fittings are legally required to be working, i.e. leaky toilet fixed or garage motor working if its fixed to the wall i.e. permanent"

Edit: correction, furniture and fittings includes All electrical items and the garage doors would need to have been excluded.

Does this mean if a garage motor is seen as a fixture (electrical item) that is must be working unless it has been listed as a defect in the OTP from the sellers side?

I would say it is a fair assumption to expect a gate/garage door motor to work unless it is explicitly stated as not working and as such documented by the seller in the OTP

The seller would be aware if it wasn't working and is expected to disclose issues and not cover them up.

I don't think voetstoots is such a thing anymore on a house sale really, unless the issues are specifically stated.

As above, I can't prove he knew, it was not an agreed upon defect to be left in non-working state in the OTP.

The voetstoots clause is there to protect the seller should they be unaware or forget something. The onus is on the buyer and their agent in this case.

The agent should have the sellers back? No? They are buddy buddy for what its worth.

Thank you for the feedback thusfar. This is a learning process.
Part of the OTP was
- fresh coat of paint (not happy with quality of workmanship, but technically it is done)
- vinyl flooring in bedrooms and ensuite bathroom, rip up carpets (not happy with quality, floor has dips and buckles, clearly bad prep done pre installation, same case as above though)

We noticed yesterday when we arranged for access to have Fibre installed in advance, and opened the water tap outside, that the ensuite bathroom's toilet is leaking water onto the now swampy vinyl flooring. Whose problem is this?

We are moving in month end with occupational rent till trasnfer is done

 

[Quintrix]

The voetstoots clause is there to protect the seller should they be unaware or forget something. The onus is on the buyer and their agent in this case

I'm under the impression voetstoots is no longer valid and sellers cannot get away with abuse of the clause. The documents should include a list of defects the seller is aware of such as this broken chain that the buyer may not notice unless made aware of it but under normal circumstances expecting the motor to work.

The onus might be on the agent but he works for the seller not the buyer.

 

[Erohann]

What is the legal implications to buy or sell a property “voetstoots”?

"Voetstoots" has its origins in South Africa's Roman-Dutch law heritage and translates to: "to push a thing sold with one's foot to indicate delivery and not come back with complaints later". This means to sell or buy a property "as it stands" or in the condition in which the property is at the...

honeyattorneys.co.za

Personally I would call the motor a patent defect, as it is clear and easy to identify, I just didn't check. He had no obligation to disclose it then.

• A patent defect is a flaw that is not hidden and ought to be easily identified upon reasonable inspection

If a property is sold “voetstoots” the only responsibility of the seller is to disclose any latent defects of which the seller is aware.

 

[pinball wizard]

The onus might be on the agent but he works for the seller not the buyer.

I didn't say estate agent. I used agent to mean the buyer and whomever operates on his behalf.

 

[pinball wizard]

I'm under the impression voetstoots is no longer valid and sellers cannot get away with abuse of the clause. The documents should include a list of defects the seller is aware of such as this broken chain that the buyer may not notice unless made aware of it but under normal circumstances expecting the motor to work.

Your impression is incorrect.

The Voetstoots Clause: What to Know - Adams & Adams

Most sale agreements of immovable property contain a clause in terms of which the purchaser thereof agrees to buy the property voetstoots.

www.adams.africa

This issue from the OP boils down to whether the seller knew, should have known, and should have disclosed this defect.
Fixtures and fittings what what has nothing to do with it here.

 

[maxxis]

Step 1: Test everything
Step 2: Make a list on the OTP of everything you want fixed
Step 3: Make a list on the OPT of all fixtures and fittings that must stay.
Step 4: Thank me later.

 

[pinball wizard]

Step 1: Test everything
Step 2: Make a list on the OTP of everything you want fixed
Step 3: Make a list on the OPT of all fixtures and fittings that must stay.
Step 4: Thank me later.

Step 5 for for the OP in this case: school fees, unfortunately.

 

[maxxis]

I got burned a bit on my first house. Learnt a lot of lessons there.
Do the same when buying a car or when you get married.

 

[Lupus]

My garage door didn't work when we moved in, it was fixed by the previous owner, as he tried the trick of oh but you didn't check if it was working. My answer is the garage door was open, I'm not going to insist you open and close the door as it should be mentioned that it does or doesn't work, his lawyer actually agreed with me. But by then his lawyer was getting gatvol of him, as he even delayed fixing my meter.

 

[Paul Kemp]

Does this mean if a garage motor is seen as a fixture (electrical item) that is must be working unless it has been listed as a defect in the OTP from the sellers side?

The way I read my OTP anything electrical that the seller/buyer wants excluded should have been listed. My interpretation tells me the garage motor is an electrical item.
You’d have to read yours and see what it says.

 

[Erohann]

The way I read my OTP anything electrical that the seller/buyer wants excluded should have been listed. My interpretation tells me the garage motor is an electrical item.
You’d have to read yours and see what it says.

Guessing I can request a copy from the estate agent? Signed in person by him so I don’t have a copy.

 

[Lupus]

Guessing I can request a copy from the estate agent? Signed in person by him so I don’t have a copy.

They send you a copy normally

 

[Erohann]

They send you a copy normally

Two months down the line, last stages of attorneys stuff, never happened