Proteas tour to Australia: November 2014

[WaxLyrical]

Behardien bought his world cup ticket early

And he bowled some decent overs.

Could this be his turning point

 

[karnuffel]

Fortunately we are not the favorites going to the word cup so we might avoid chocking....

 

[Electric]

Fortunately we are not the favorites going to the word cup so we might avoid chocking....

As much as I love SA, I think it will take more than that for us to loose our choker crown.

 

[thestaggy]

Good grief! Now that will be a massive upset if he makes the squad.

And what's this about AB saying we are better than the team which thumped us 4 - 1? Whatever he is smoking I want some it too :wtf:

Taking a leaf from Meyer's book when he said we stood up well in the scrums at the weekend?

Delusions of grandeur.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Tsotsobe instead of abbott, umad.

For whatever reason you don't seem able to arrive at the logical conclusion that Tsotsobe has always been and will always be a better bowler than Abbott. You don't reach top of the world without having class about you. There's nothing that says class about Abbott. In fact if Shezi or Mbhalati had Abbott's figures you would've long called that they be dropped. Keeping him the side is simply not a luxury the team can afford. Once Phangiso is fit he can play the containing role if that's required.

Comapre Tsotsobe after nine matches to the mediocre Abbott after 9 matches.

That's precisely why I say not only administrators but fans have a natural bias not driven by cricket facts. Tsotsobe is a world class ODI bowler one that I and indeed many would consider at Steyn&Morkel class if not better. I certainly believe he's the best with the new ball in this country, whatever the conditions!

Without fail he should be part fo the WC XI:

Amla, AB(c), Faf, JP, QdK(wk), Farhaan, Philander, Steyn, Phangiso, Tsotsobe, Morkel

I find it quite embarassing that a bowler whom we should be desperate to have in the team (considering Steyn's increasingly average returns and Morkel's poor perfomances in any pitches not extremely helpful to seamers), is being compared to lowly Abbott. Utterly shocking!

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Good grief! Now that will be a massive upset if he makes the squad.

And what's this about AB saying we are better than the team which thumped us 4 - 1? Whatever he is smoking I want some it too :wtf:

Not an upset if Farhaan makes the squad. What with the mediocrity dished out by hopefuls Miller, McLaren & Parnell!

I wouldn't pay attention to what AB said. After all Amla did say "we didn't do the basics right", but AB said afterwards "we did the basics better", then went on to say "We're better than Australia." I don't think it has anything to do with mind games, but everything to do with the main reasons why he's not Test captain. He genuinely thinks the Proteas are better despite all common sense pointing to the contrary. That's as far as his reasoning can take him, and naturally the standard of his captaincy throughout this series has found him wanting pretty much everytime out there in the middle.

Faf losing form at the wrong time, maybe injury to do with it but I doubt he'll reverse it vs WI or at the WC, so after a predictably disastrous WC, expect Amla to be captain of both the Test&ODI side, with AB perhaps replacing Faf in the T20 side to save face if Frahaan doesn't get the appointment. You heard it from me first.

 

[thestaggy]

Without fail he should be part fo the WC XI:

Amla, AB(c), Faf, JP, QdK(wk), Farhaan, Philander, Steyn, Phangiso, Tsotsobe, Morkel

Is that not an incredibly weak team batting wise?

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Is that not an incredibly weak team batting wise?

Name any batsmen who would genuinely&consistently score more runs from seven than Philander.

 

[thestaggy]

Name any batsmen who would genuinely&consistently score more runs from seven than Philander.

Let us look at that tail's performance over the past two years.

Vern, who is recognised as an all-rounder, has scored 34 runs in 9 innings, averaging 3.8.
Steyn has scored 95 runs in 17 innings, averaging 5.6.
Phangiso has scored 45 runs in 7 innings, averaging 6.4.
Lopsy has scored 42 runs in 14 innings, averaging 3.
Morne has scored 83 runs in 16 innings, averaging 5.2.

Of the 5, only Steyn (23) and Morne (22*) have scored 20 runs or more in the past two years in an innings. Vern's best efforts were two knocks of 14 in 2013. Those two innings account for 82% of his total run count over the past two years.

That is an incredibly weak - and long - tail based on present form and not a single one of them has shown any sort of consistency. In my opinion it would be a massive gamble playing that team, because if your top-order misfires not a single player from 7 - 11 looks like they can put something together.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Let us look at that tail's performance over the past two years.

Vern, who is recognised as an all-rounder, has scored 34 runs in 9 innings, averaging 3.8.
Steyn has scored 95 runs in 17 innings, averaging 5.6.
Phangiso has scored 45 runs in 7 innings, averaging 6.4.
Lopsy has scored 42 runs in 14 innings, averaging 3.
Morne has scored 83 runs in 16 innings, averaging 5.2.

Of the 5, only Steyn (23) and Morne (22*) have scored 20 runs or more in the past two years in an innings. Vern's best efforts were two knocks of 14 in 2013. Those two innings account for 82% of his total run count over the past two years.

That is an incredibly weak - and long - tail based on present form and not a single one of them has shown any sort of consistency. In my opinion it would be a massive gamble playing that team, because if your top-order misfires not a single player from 7 - 11 looks like they can put something together.

I note all your points but the problems in the Proteas have been two-fold:

1. Morne Morkel. Persisted with in Tests&ODIs when it's clear he has lost a lot of effectiveness.

2. AB not opening. We could've had a Tendulkar+Ganguly, Hayden+Gilchrist feared world combo in ODIs (or even if it was just up to Jayasuriya+Atapattu or Gayle+Chanderpaul level that would be sufficient). Instead we keep him until the end where to be honest his contributions haven't exactly resulted in matches won when it counts. QdK has been exposed technically, just as AB was when he first broke into the side as an opener. But he's better now and all we see is QdK being a walking wicket unless the conditions are extremely batting friendly.

As things stand they won't drop Mrone Morkel, and even if he was dropped who would be brought in? Abbott, Marchant, McLaren, Parnell? Forget it! They are nowhere near good enough. If Morkel is dropped then you can get Rossouw in at 5, since JP guides the lower order better than anyone anyway. Rossouw has shown he can hang around and contribute some runs even though he's like for like with Faf. But it's better than hit-or-miss Miller.

Amla, AB(c), Faf, Rossouw, JP, QdK(wk), Farhaan, Philander, Steyn, Phangiso, Tsotsobe

Bu like I said, they won't drop Morkel. It's politics. The AB+Steyn mafia won't allow it. But I stand by my argument that in LOIs, our best opening bowling pair is Tsotsobe plus anyone else - Steyn/Philander/Morkel. Bear in mind that it wasn't long ago that Philander was failing in ODIs, while Steyn has been average for some time like I said. Tsosobe has outbowled everyone with the new ball more often than they've outbowled him, he's proven his fitness and bowled well domestically, so he should walk back into the XI. And I can bet my last cent that he would outbowl any of those seamers in his first match too.

 

[thestaggy]

I note all your points but the problems in the Proteas have been two-fold:

1. Morne Morkel. Persisted with in Tests&ODIs when it's clear he has lost a lot of effectiveness.

2. AB not opening. We could've had a Tendulkar+Ganguly, Hayden+Gilchrist feared world combo in ODIs (or even if it was just up to Jayasuriya+Atapattu or Gayle+Chanderpaul level that would be sufficient). Instead we keep him until the end where to be honest his contributions haven't exactly resulted in matches won when it counts. QdK has been exposed technically, just as AB was when he first broke into the side as an opener. But he's better now and all we see is QdK being a walking wicket unless the conditions are extremely batting friendly.

As things stand they won't drop Mrone Morkel, and even if he was dropped who would be brought in? Abbott, Marchant, McLaren, Parnell? Forget it! They are nowhere near good enough. If Morkel is dropped then you can get Rossouw in at 5, since JP guides the lower order better than anyone anyway. Rossouw has shown he can hang around and contribute some runs even though he's like for like with Faf. But it's better than hit-or-miss Miller.

Amla, AB(c), Faf, Rossouw, JP, QdK(wk), Farhaan, Philander, Steyn, Phangiso, Tsotsobe

Bu like I said, they won't drop Morkel. It's politics. The AB+Steyn mafia won't allow it. But I stand by my argument that in LOIs, our best opening bowling pair is Tsotsobe plus anyone else - Steyn/Philander/Morkel. Bear in mind that it wasn't long ago that Philander was failing in ODIs, while Steyn has been average for some time like I said. Tsosobe has outbowled everyone with the new ball more often than they've outbowled him, he's proven his fitness and bowled well domestically, so he should walk back into the XI. And I can bet my last cent that he would outbowl any of those seamers in his first match too.

At least one of those bowlers would need to be dropped to ensure stability. I understand that there is a bit of an issue finding a reliable middle-order batsmen but based on present form any of them would offer more as a batsmen than the 5 bowlers.

I agree with regard to Morkel. When looking at his bowling over the past two years, does look the most expendable at this point as his average and economy rate has gotten steadily worse. He's the most expensive of the three senior pacemen with the lowest return. With this in mind, Lopsy should in fairness be given a run in his place. Phangiso's spot should be bracketed with one of the pacemen on a match-by-match basis. If the opposition is susceptible to spin and/or the track is conducive to it then he gets the nod. If not then they can go 4 up on the pace front.

I personally don't like Amla and AB as openers, but at the moment we have no alternatives. It would be fantastic if we had reliable options at 1 and 2 that could set Amla and AB up at 3 and 4 with a decent score at a healthy pace. AB can pummel a bowling attack a la Gilchrist, but he is a superior stroke player as well and getting him more time in the middle instead of tasking him with setting the pace or saving a sinking ship would play to his quality.

 

[stefan9]

This criticism of QDK is ridiculous.

For reference as opening bats/wicket keepers go. QDK avg 43.58 with a strikerate of 88.42. The great Adam Gillchrist averaged 35.89 with a strikerate of 96.89. Adam also had lots of periods where he did nothing but when he did it was great and he won many a final for aus. I see QDK as the same.

The idea that AB should open is ridiculous. He averages 35 as an opener while he averages 53 @nr3, 54 @nr4 and 72 @nr5.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

At least one of those bowlers would need to be dropped to ensure stability. I understand that there is a bit of an issue finding a reliable middle-order batsmen but based on present form any of them would offer more as a batsmen than the 5 bowlers.

I agree with regard to Morkel. When looking at his bowling over the past two years, does look the most expendable at this point as his average and economy rate has gotten steadily worse. He's the most expensive of the three senior pacemen with the lowest return. With this in mind, Lopsy should in fairness be given a run in his place. Phangiso's spot should be bracketed with one of the pacemen on a match-by-match basis. If the opposition is susceptible to spin and/or the track is conducive to it then he gets the nod. If not then they can go 4 up on the pace front.

I personally don't like Amla and AB as openers, but at the moment we have no alternatives. It would be fantastic if we had reliable options at 1 and 2 that could set Amla and AB up at 3 and 4 with a decent score at a healthy pace. AB can pummel a bowling attack a la Gilchrist, but he is a superior stroke player as well and getting him more time in the middle instead of tasking him with setting the pace or saving a sinking ship would play to his quality.

We have to pick one specialist spinner. Right now we've got 3 class spinners (Phangiso, Piedt & Tahir) plus Leie banging on the door and RobbieP fighting to remain relevant. Tahir has had a great record, much like Leie's suprisingly good form lately but in AUS/NZ pitches I expect them to fetch heavily. RobbieP goes for runs, but he's always good for some runs on the board himself which offsets the damage. I think Phangio&Piedt are most like to get us 1/40 or 2/40 more often than not, but Piedt is untested, so Phangiso get the nod. Question is will the selectors choose RobbieP ahead of Tahir? I suspect RobbieP will miss out and Tahir will get mauled early on and spend the rest of the tournament doing drinks.

I'm not sure how you'll bracket Phangiso with a seamer unless your reasoning is Tahir is always in, then Phangiso comes in as a second spinner. If thats the case then those conditions will never warrant more than one spinner. In fact JP alone would suffice.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

This criticism of QDK is ridiculous.

For reference as opening bats/wicket keepers go. QDK avg 43.58 with a strikerate of 88.42. The great Adam Gillchrist averaged 35.89 with a strikerate of 96.89. Adam also had lots of periods where he did nothing but when he did it was great and he won many a final for aus. I see QDK as the same.

The idea that AB should open is ridiculous. He averages 35 as an opener while he averages 53 @nr3, 54 @nr4 and 72 @nr5.

The one thing that I love about the prevailing belief among the majority of fans (and clearly the slectors an coaches) is that their position on QdK will be an overwhelmign regret. I have no doubt that upon the autopsy after another disappoitning WC, one of the key questions will be why QdK was persisted with as an opener. He is not good enough to be an opener, especially in those conditions and this WC will prove it beyond doubt. I find it concerning that people have overlooked the signs. Didn't people learn from AB's career himself when he started? Clearly not.