Proteas vs West Indies: 2014/15

[Noob-Noob]

Just an opinion, and we can agree to disagree there, but in my book no way Boucher is anywhere near as good as Thami. He'd say so himself I think. Boucher wasn't even as good as Taibu. I think any bowler who's experienced both Thami&Boucher keeping will say Thami definitely.

I've watched MvW quite a bit. Him and Vilas had stinkers for the A side against ZIM/BD/AUS/SL A sides etc, with both bat and keeping. Amla lost one of those series which discouraged him from taking captaincy. That CSA ditched them for quite some time after that tells quite a story. You can get discs of those games for free from Supersport. They were quite ordinary and looked inferior to some of the reserve ZIM&BD keepers.

ABdV was criticised by Healy and quite a few keepers. He's not a natural keeper but his excellent fielding abilities help him anticipate better to compensate for his shorcomings. While QdK's weak keeping is common knowledge, but he's grown since then I think. So obviously MvW will be better than them. Maybe I'm talking BS by comparing Ingram to MvW but we've been watching him the last couple of games and he's looked untidy. I was a little bit upset when Ingram kept a certain natural keeper out of the franchise, but some guys a checked with - experienced&watched live - said he's keeping was good enough fo rinternational level.

So maybe no so much a case of BS but "you're being harsh on MvW, Not saying Ingram is a bad keeper, but he literally just started out, he might become a real great. But at this stage, there is no way he is on par with MvW". I've watched a lot of Pro20&ODI domstic games and I don't think MvW is even as good Jacobs or Mosehle. Sorry I don't rate his keeping abilities. Let's try and watch him closely next few games, nit-pick a bit and see.

We can agree to disagree then
Boucher broke every record there was for a keeper to brake, I saw that guy do leaps and catches that i'm sure no other keeper could do, He was a expert at field placing and a wonderful VC. The only thing Boucher was not world class in, was his keeping when the spinners came on, but since we never had any real spinners, this was not a huge factor.
Thami is a good keeper, probably the best Keeper we have, but we all know his batting was poor for the most part of his career, even if it has improved the last 2 seasons, its too little, too late.

And okay, lets not call it BS and rather you are being harsh on MvW. I have watched him closely, I have watched him for years actually....And yes he is probably not the best or even second best keeper in the country, but he is good enough, he brings loads of very valuable experience and can be a match winner on his day.

 

[Creag]

Anyone in or near Centurion can comment on the weather there and prospects for the game? Me est in Sandton and the rain is a steady drizzle at the mo. Would be unfortunate if the game is reduced to a slog or nothing at all.

 

[Noob-Noob]

Contrary to you I loved Manantie Hayward!

Me as well, i read somewhere how glad the Australians was when they removed Nantie from the attack or dropped him, think he was every batsman worse nightmare, actually watched a few youtube vids of him bowling a few weeks back.

 

[Noob-Noob]

Anyone in or near Centurion can comment on the weather there and prospects for the game? Me est in Sandton and the rain is a steady drizzle at the mo. Would be unfortunate if the game is reduced to a slog or nothing at all.

Its not raining at the moment, but the sun is yet to show its face. I have no idea how wet the outfield is, we had allot of rain Last night and this morning.

 

[Noob-Noob]

For me, Wayward had pace and nothing else. On the big stage, pace only takes you that far.
My brother faced Donald as well in the late 80s. Lets just say he did not see much of his bowling.

Shoaib Akhtar did quite well

 

[thestaggy]

Boucher protection by the mafia.

The Australians had the same with Adam Gilchrist though.

During his time as first-choice 'keeper, a guy by the name of Darren Berry was considered the best Aussie 'keeper in the 90s and early 00s. Many felt he was the natural successor to Healy. Unfortunately for him, he didn't have the extra tangibles Gilly had. Primarily, his career averages with the bat were less than half that of Gilly's. Berry averaged just 21 runs in FCC compared to Gilly's test average of 47.

Steve Waugh himself says Darren Berry is the best cricketer to have never worn the baggy green in a test match.

 

[AirWolf]

12.50pm The series is coming to an end, the South African international summer is coming to an end, and Quinton de Kock's series is going to begin. Hello and welcome to our coverage of the fifth and final ODI, in Centurion. A few other changes are also expected in the South African XI, and maybe in the West Indies camp too, as we wait for the toss, which has been delayed due to rain and the pitch is covered as of now.
Prakashkhakda: "Fingers crossed for the weather! Rain please keep away!"

.

 

[Noob-Noob]

The Australians had the same with Adam Gilchrist though.

During his time as first-choice 'keeper, a guy by the name of Darren Berry was considered the best Aussie 'keeper in the 90s and early 00s. Many felt he was the natural successor to Healy. Unfortunately for him, he didn't have the extra tangibles Gilly had. Primarily, his career averages with the bat were less than half that of Gilly's. Berry averaged just 21 runs in FCC compared to Gilly's test average of 47.

Steve Waugh himself says Darren Berry is the best cricketer to have never worn the baggy green in a test match.

Back in SA it was Nic Pothas. But I believe at the end of the day, Boucher was the better choice, As was Gilchrist for Aus.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

The Australians had the same with Adam Gilchrist though.

During his time as first-choice 'keeper, a guy by the name of Darren Berry was considered the best Aussie 'keeper in the 90s and early 00s. Many felt he was the natural successor to Healy. Unfortunately for him, he didn't have the extra tangibles Gilly had. Primarily, his career averages with the bat were less than half that of Gilly's. Berry averaged just 21 runs in FCC compared to Gilly's test average of 47.

Steve Waugh himself says Darren Berry is the best cricketer to have never worn the baggy green in a test match.

Gilchrist and Andy Flower were the worst keepers that I think we've been subjected to watching for such a long time. But batting counts. We've seen QdK benefit from it in the Test side, so hope he grabs it with both hands. Guys are calling for Rudi Second too. Ingram has time too.

But I wouldn't be surprised to se a Proteas having both AB,QdK&Ingram in the same XI over next couple of years but with neither keeping.

The game is evolving so much now that express pace seamers are growing scarce, even 138-140kph seamers never mind 148-150kph. So keepers will have to stand up to the stumps more often to this army of medium pace bowlers. Plus with the IPL a factor, the top keeper batsmen won't stand a chance unless they are competent against spinners.

There's been so many average batsmen doing the rounds that I'm surprised at the low rate of stumpings. I'd go even further to say that there's been more missed stumpings than those effected. All of this says a lot about the standard of keeping in world cricket. Not easy to rectify. With illegal spinning there are regulations, but with keeping anyone can be chucked behind the stumps as long as their liabilities don't exactly harm the chances of a team winning.

I worry when I see guys like Steve Smith comfortably double-stepping out of the crease everytime. While it shows that non-subcontinent sides are getting confident against spin, there'll be enough pretenders who present easy stumpings so that department needs to be addressed. How many times have we seen a batsmen walk down and slap a medium pacer to the boundary? An dhow many times have we seen them miss?

 

[ZCFOutkast]

.

Toss will be crucial in this game. D/L, bowling etc.

 

[MickeyD]

Me as well, i read somewhere how glad the Australians was when they removed Nantie from the attack or dropped him, think he was every batsman worse nightmare, actually watched a few youtube vids of him bowling a few weeks back.

Nantie is a great oke, on and off the field. However... when playing against him and that red mist descended, it was not pleasant!! Had many a beer with him and his dad.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Nantie is a great oke, on and off the field. However... when playing against him and that red mist descended, it was not pleasant!! Had many a beer with him and his dad.

Like I said, I rated him, so was a little surprised when some expressed reservations above, especially when there's a handful of seamer one can rate ahead of him. But opinions vary a lot then.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Apparently his name is Mornantau not Manantie. What do I know...

And that's an English surname (hayward) if I'm not mistaken. I think he's suffering from the Ryan McLaren syndrome. The Afrikaaners taking over cricket slowly at the time didn't have his back so was disposable.

I digress.

 

[MickeyD]

Apparently his name is Mornantau not Manantie. What do I know...

And that's an English surname (hayward) if I'm not mistaken. I think he's suffering from the Ryan McLaren syndrome. The Afrikaaners taking over cricket slowly at the time didn't have his back so was disposable.

I digress.

Mornantau - he's a solid dutchman from Uitenhage!

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Mornantau - he's a solid dutchman from Uitenhage!

Serious? With Smith you could tell from the name Graeme. But with Hayward there's no sign of it.

 

[MickeyD]

Serious? With Smith you could tell from the name Graeme. But with Hayward there's no sign of it.

Yep.

Also a Springbok baseball player - pitcher... still played last season!!

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Yep.

Also a Springbok baseball player - pitcher... still played last season!!

This article is revealing http://www.theguardian.com/sport/1999/dec/12/cricket2

Ok Afrikaaner it is then. So he got fed up with the 1-bouncer law and turned to baseball instead so he could fire it straight to the head "legally"?

Wikipedia

Steve Waugh appears to have reached this conclusion in this autobiography, saying that: "I'm amazed he didn't...become world-class...a collective cheer went up in the Australian camp whenever his unpredictable raw pace was overlooked [by the South African selectors]."

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Brett Lee almost getting a hat-trick, two English rejects of "African" origin lighting up the BBL (KP&Carberry). Meanwhile Proteas fans are stuck with match tickets to watch their hero AB who isn't part of the squad, in a rained out match. Beautiful!

 

[MickeyD]

This article is revealing http://www.theguardian.com/sport/1999/dec/12/cricket2

Ok Afrikaaner it is then. So he got fed up with the 1-bouncer law and turned to baseball instead so he could fire it straight to the head "legally"?

Wikipedia

No, he played baseball as a youngster as well. The baseball club (Red Sox) and his cricket (Uitenhage) were on the same piece of land. Two cricket fields and the baseball diamond...

 

[Seriously]

No, he played baseball as a youngster as well. The baseball club (Red Sox) and his cricket (Uitenhage) were on the same piece of land. Two cricket fields and the baseball diamond...

I used to refer to him as Wayward Nantie. Where is he now, still active?