Protester Spits On Trump Supporter During Interview at Minneapolis Rally

[Gingerbeardman]

Then why did the Democrats reject a deal that included a path to Citizenship for the dreamers?

The same reason they have yet to sign the USMCA.

 

[cerebus]

What does the border being porous have to do with it? Its still illegal. It doesn't make it right.

I didn't say it was right but how bad is it really? There are hundreds of businesses desperate for their labour. They have a lower crime rate and contribute more to the economy than they use - there are plenty of studies on this. Legally it's classified as a misdemeanour, similar to trespassing, prostitution, etc.

Second, separating families is because of bad implementation. Immigration should still be legal, but separating families is wrong.

Not bad implementation - bad policy. The implementation is 100% deliberate.

The only fair way to allocate stretched resources is according to the law. This is why immigration rules need to be followed. Not because some people are better than others, but because things must be fair.

I agree but they should also be humane

"A lot of people come and overstay their visas" - again, not sure why this means they must now be granted the right to remain. I really don't get your argument. One cannot just decide that the laws don't apply to you. It doesn't work.

I didn't say people should be granted the right to remain. I think their children should have a path to remain if they were born in the US though.

 

[Emjay]

The same reason they have yet to sign the USMCA.

He is literally making an argument for cheap and illegal labour, just veiled in virtue signalling.

 

[buka001]

See, you can't even paraphrase your own conduct without giving the game away. Your refusal to discuss the influence of ideological persuasions on the situation in general shows how your engagements are conducted in bad faith, there is no grounds for you to claim that individual responsibility is absolute without contradicting your own position.

You clearly read what I say wrong intentionally.

What I said

the response is overwhelming in defense of these events, as not a symptom of the growing threat of stochastic right wing terrorism. It is actually the left's fault and despite the Conservative principle about personal responsibility, everything on the planet is blamed, except the people who are actually guilty of these crimes.

And what I said again

I said they defend the matter as not being the fault of the individual and his ideological persuasions, but instead it is the fault of the left that someone shot up a mall because of his fears with illegal immigrants.

There is always the argument to disavow a right wing terrorists ideology from right wing ideology on this forum.

Everything except the individual is blamed.

 

[cerebus]

Then why did the Democrats reject a deal that included a path to Citizenship for the dreamers?

There were plenty of reasons why they rejected it:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1086753956838211586

 

[Emjay]

There were plenty of reasons why they rejected it:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1086753956838211586

That's not a reason. So they rejected the offer, and were left with even less.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

He is literally making an argument for cheap and illegal labour, just veiled in virtue signalling.

Well how else are those progressive elites in California going to be able to afford and justify all those trips to the massage parlor and their housekeeping staff and the gardening services and all those other personal service jobs that allow one to live like a king without it costing an arm and a leg for all but the 1% of the 1%?

But hey, you have to give them credit, at least they've got their process of getting the NPCs to parrot their script down to a fine art.

 

[Ancalagon]

I didn't say it was right but how bad is it really? There are hundreds of businesses desperate for their labour. They have a lower crime rate and contribute more to the economy than they use - there are plenty of studies on this. Legally it's classified as a misdemeanour, similar to trespassing, prostitution, etc.

But you can't have selective enforcement of the law. The consequences for entering the country illegally should be a reversal of that - deportation. If there is a positive contribution to the economy, then the USA needs to setup a system to allow for limited immigration of select individuals that may benefit the economy.

The solution is not lawbreaking. You may not like the law, but that doesn't mean that you can break it. I don't like the law that prevents me from stealing - does that mean I should break it? Or that, if caught, I should keep what I stole because I need it more? No, the law is the law!

Not bad implementation - bad policy. The implementation is 100% deliberate.

The law does not require separation. If some brainfart decides that separation should be policy, that has nothing to do with the law.

I agree but they should also be humane

I've seen nothing to indicate that the law is unjust. Separation of families is unjust, but that is not law. Congress did not make it law. That is some idiot who think its a good idea.

The law also has to protect the interests of those who already live in America. Why should they be prejudiced because some snowflake feels he belongs there?

I didn't say people should be granted the right to remain. I think their children should have a path to remain if they were born in the US though.

Sorry, like I said, if you enter the country illegally, you need to prepare yourself for the consequences. That could include deportation, and it could include your children, who are innocent. Better to deport an entire family than have the children remain behind while the parents go home. Don't do something like breaking the law unless you are prepared for what comes.

 

[Pitbull]

Also, looking on actual illegal immigration data, it's debatable whether Trump's policies are effective in reducing it. Under Obama, more illegals were deported each year than under Trump.

Wait, so are you saying more crossed the border illegally during Obama, or that Obama's ICE squad worked better? I mean people who have been working in ICE for decades

Maybe less are crossing under Trump, who would have thought ...

 

[Unhappy438]

That's not a reason. So they rejected the offer, and were left with even less.

The reason is simple really, Democrat supporters disapprove of the wall. So agreeing to build the wall will see them do badly with voters.

 

[cerebus]

That's not a reason. So they rejected the offer, and were left with even less.

You mean they rejected Trump's bad faith hugely inadequate offer, and were left defeating his utterly moronic shutdown?

 

[rambo919]

Everything except the individual is blamed.

Just a word of caution, be careful of falling into the trap of blaming the individual in some cases and blaming the ideology in others as is comfortable, both individuals and ideologies have some measure of blame in such incidents.

Yes there is something that looks like a leaderless right wing rising in the western world BUT it would never have happened without the left taking control of society and promptly getting high on itself and loosing it's mind..... balance and counter-balance.... the backswings are terrible when they happen.

 

[Emjay]

You mean they rejected Trump's bad faith hugely inadequate offer, and were left defeating his utterly moronic shutdown?

I would be salty too. Especially after supporting a rejected offer, walking away with nothing, and Trump getting his wall.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

You clearly read what I say wrong intentionally.

No I'm not.

What I said

Here's the full quote:

Someone spits at a Trump supporter ... response is overwhelming in calling it out, outrage at the "tolerant left", anger at how the left is protracting the divisive discourse of our age.

A Trump supporter drives over a protestor, or sends several bombs to Democrats, tries to blow up an Amtrak train, plans to carry out attacks on CNN ... the response is overwhelming in defense of these events, as not a symptom of the growing threat of stochastic right wing terrorism. It is actually the left's fault and despite the Conservative principle about personal responsibility, everything on the planet is blamed, except the people who are actually guilty of these crimes. Anyone who tries to highlight the issue is just suffering from TDS and is just a soy boy beta cuck leftist communist socialist libzombie libtard Kaktural Muchist.

When a thread about a Trump fan being spat at garners more support and outrage for this lowkey act of battery, than an act of actual terrorism by a Trump supporter, it has to just make you laugh at the incomparable level of cognitive dissonance.

So first off, you can't find a post where I advocate for the principle of personal responsibility as you describe because such a thing does not exist. Secondly, "stochastic right wing terrorism" is not a phenomenon that you can blame on individuals as individuals, if that's what you were aiming for, the best you'd be able to get to is stochastic terrorism", so here already you betray your partisanship, and your demand that anyone adhere to the principle of personal responsibility when you clearly don't (and nor does the left in general, as I understand it) is performed in bad faith.

And what I said again

Yup, you made a reference to his ideological views. That means the effects of other ideological views are fair game, and your refusal to discuss those issues or acknowledge them is proof of your partisan engagement in bad faith.

Everything except the individual is blamed.

You don't even adhere to the standard you would prescribe, so why the hell should I listen to you in the first place? Hypocrite.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

That's not a reason. So they rejected the offer, and were left with even less.

So desperate to make Trump look bad that they're perfectly willing to screw over the whole country in the process. Stay classy, Dems.

 

[Unhappy438]

and Trump getting his wall.

He certainly hasnt, trying to build that thing on a lot of that property is going to be a nightmare.

 

[buka001]

No I'm not.


Here's the full quote:


So first off, you can't find a post where I advocate for the principle of personal responsibility as you describe because such a thing does not exist. Secondly, "stochastic right wing terrorism" is not a phenomenon that you can blame on individuals as individuals, if that's what you were aiming for, the best you'd be able to get to is stochastic terrorism", so here already you betray your partisanship, and your demand that anyone adhere to the principle of personal responsibility when you clearly don't (and nor does the left in general, as I understand it) is performed in bad faith.


Yup, you made a reference to his ideological views. That means the effects of other ideological views are fair game, and your refusal to discuss those issues or acknowledge them is proof of your partisan engagement in bad faith.


You don't even adhere to the standard you would prescribe, so why the hell should I listen to you in the first place? Hypocrite.

His ideological views such as his opposition to illegal immigration and the fact that he wrote a manifesto on his ideologies and its motivation for him?

Those views are what you fought tooth and nail to the last blade of grass on your hill to defend were actually the fault of the left and Cultural Marxism.

 

[buka001]

Just a word of caution, be careful of falling into the trap of blaming the individual in some cases and blaming the ideology in others as is comfortable, both individuals and ideologies have some measure of blame in such incidents.

Yes there is something that looks like a leaderless right wing rising in the western world BUT it would never have happened without the left taking control of society and promptly getting high on itself and loosing it's mind..... balance and counter-balance.... the backswings are terrible when they happen.

Appreciate the support of my point, thanks.

 

[rambo919]

Appreciate the support of my point, thanks.

Unlike some might believe I'm not above agreeing with possible truth.... just keep in mind that no or almost no organized right wing exists, which has not stopped left wing activist conspiracy theories flying around about an "imminent fascist state"..... it's as if these people don't hear themselves speak sometimes.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

His ideological views such as his opposition to illegal immigration and the fact that he wrote a manifesto on his ideologies and its motivation for him?

Those views are what you fought tooth and nail to the last blade of grass on your hill to defend were actually the fault of the left and Cultural Marxism.

But exactly. You tried to make it a right-wing issue, so I flipped the script on you and demonstrated to what degree it's a left-wing issue. Now you're crying about individualism, contradicting your earlier position, showing that your only purpose in this thread is in fact to troll. Note that you weren't actually able to repudiate my arguments, instead you resorted to your usual appeal to ridicule nonsense.