Sinbad

Honorary Master
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Jun 5, 2006
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Well, it goes along with the current trend of paid-for awards throughout our rotten government.
 

raesteyn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
149
This is brilliant. They are getting an award for a toll system that doesnt work? Absolutely brilliant, I for one am super stoked that my tax money is partially going to awards for attendance... I have a bycycle in the garden I dont use... gonna take a chunk out of tax payments to award it for exellence in being there.
 

Cool E

Expert Member
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Feb 23, 2012
Messages
4,023
More info on ibtta.

http://www.ibtta.org/Membership/Directory/SearchResults.cfm?Keyword=&Facility=&Country=197&State=

http://www.ibtta.org/AboutUs/content.cfm?ItemNumber=4267&token=31678&userID=&navItemNumber=3907


The purpose of the IBTTA Foundation is to provide advanced education and training to professionals in the toll industry on the many aspects of designing, building, operating and maintaining a user financed transportation facility. These facilities would include toll roads, bridges and tunnels and other surface transportation facilities financed by the users of those facilities through tolls or other forms of pricing.

All over the world, national governments and their local and regional counterparts are turning to user financing to support existing highways and to build new surface transportation infrastructure. Tolling and pricing have become a vital part of the fabric of transportation facility design and operations in recent years and will become even more important in the future.

The IBTTA Foundation intends to create courses, workshops, seminars and other educational programs to help prepare the next generation of leaders and managers in the growing worldwide toll industry to perform their jobs effectively and serve the public interest.

Statement of Purpose
January 2007
 

sin_x

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
542
So, it's like the ANCYL winning an award from the ANC.
Or Bing winning an award from fairsearch.org.
 

j4ck455

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
7,206
This award can only be granted to members of IBTTA, and that annual membership is up to R110,000 ($11,580). This is money which must have been paid with public funds.

The DA should also call for an embargo on all payments from SANRAL to IBTTA, with some luck IBTTA might decide to repossess the award from SANRAL's Vusi Moaner who seems intent on publicly parading this thing in a very indecent manner.
 

Allin

Expert Member
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Oct 6, 2010
Messages
1,311
This is like Shell awarding Hummer with an award for using more fuel than a 800cc city car!
 

Skerminkel

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Dec 3, 2008
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Disagree with the DA here. All companies and organisations belong to societies, associations and institutions. If a society that you or your organisation belong to give you an award, it means that you are recognised by your peers. The argument against membership paid for with public money is idiotic.
You might argue against a specific society or the merits of the award, but not the concept of membership to societies in general.
This one seems like cheap politicking by the DA.
 

drukkie

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Jan 24, 2007
Messages
2,376
Disagree with the DA here. All companies and organisations belong to societies, associations and institutions. If a society that you or your organisation belong to give you an award, it means that you are recognised by your peers. The argument against membership paid for with public money is idiotic.
You might argue against a specific society or the merits of the award, but not the concept of membership to societies in general.
This one seems like cheap politicking by the DA.

you are FAIL
 

j4ck455

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
7,206
This one seems like cheap politicking by the DA.

I don't see a problem with that especially if it is to curb unnecessary and frivolous government expenditure of the tax money that gets deducted from my salary every month.

If the DA was following the cANCer government's example of using extravagant politicking, I might have a different opinion.
 

Creag

The Boar's Rock
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
42,509
Did SANRAL get any prizes or recognition for:

1. their lack of transparency in respect of the contacts in place surrounding the etolling;
2. the inflated pricing on completion of the infrastructure;
3. the ludicrous cost of collecting fees, ie. two-thirds of every Rand goes towards the cost of collection;
4. foreigners benefiting substantially more than local business;
5. public consultation which they no attention to and/or paying lip service to listening to the people;
6. ignoring the overwhelming logic and well thought out collection mechanisms by highly experienced economists;
7. choosing to fleece its citizens and enrich themselves

Etc. Etc. Etc.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
105,195
Disagree with the DA here. All companies and organisations belong to societies, associations and institutions. If a society that you or your organisation belong to give you an award, it means that you are recognised by your peers. The argument against membership paid for with public money is idiotic.
You might argue against a specific society or the merits of the award, but not the concept of membership to societies in general.
This one seems like cheap politicking by the DA.

This is public money to be part of a foundation that serves no real purpose...

SANRAL are trying to fleece the public, whilst wasting public funds. Colour me unimpressed.
 

AnibugZA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
325
Let me begin by saying that I am opposed to eTolls and I feel it is ridiculous that SANRAL have won an award for a system which has not been implemented and is not working yet (in the technical sense of "working" as in "operational".)

However, for once I am not in agreement with the full accusation made against SANRAL.

Firstly, it is true that our tax money is used to fund SANRAL. It is also true that SANRAL used part of that money to pay for their membership to IBTTA. But to say that the money "paid for" the award is not true. SANRAL did not "buy" the award.

Secondly, all of the comparisons being made to explain how silly it is for a body which promotes tolling to give an award for tolling are quite frankly ridiculous themselves. It makes perfect sense for an international body focused on a specific field or industry to be able to give an award for excellence in that particular field or industry. If a group such as the World Health Organisation (which promotes, oddly enough, Health around the World) were to award a member country, government department or a medical facility for a Health initiative they had run, said award would be highly regarded amongst the member countries and the world in general as an example of how such an initiative should be done.

However, simply because Tolling currently has such a negative connotation here in SA (mostly due to the Government's decision to double-tax us for our PUBLIC roads) we dismiss the value and importance that industry-specific global organisations play. If SARS were to win a Tax award from an international Tax-focused association or society, we wouldn't go on about how stupid it was that our country had implemented a world-class modern system simply because we all hate paying Tax.

If SANRAL implemented tolling and they were NOT a member of any international regulatory or governing societies or councils, we would be hauling them over the coals for that fact, saying that their system and policies and procedures did not comply to best practice because they did not belong to any societies or organisations which promote and educate its members on such things.

What we should be focusing on here is the details of the award. Everyone just keeps saying "award" but what is the award called, and what exactly is it awarded for? How can a company that has built but not successfully implemented a system, no matter how modern or world-class that system is, be given an award for that system?

SANRAL need to understand that people in SA will never be on their side regardless of how good their tolling system may be because Government decided to screw the people.
 

j4ck455

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
7,206
But to say that the money "paid for" the award is not true. SANRAL did not "buy" the award.

SANRAL would never have received the "award" if SANRAL had not paid R110000 over to IBTTA for "membership fees" since the IBTTA does not give awards out to non-members, and SANRAL nominated itself for this award.

Secondly, all of the comparisons being made to explain how silly it is for a body which promotes tolling to give an award for tolling are quite frankly ridiculous themselves. It makes perfect sense for an international body focused on a specific field or industry to be able to give an award for excellence in that particular field or industry.

The award was not only for tolling, it was for excellent customer service and service to "the community" :rolleyes:

If you want a ridiculous comparison, compare SANRAL's IBTTA award to an excellence award given to a serial killer for technique and number of victims murdered by an international association of serial killers that charges an annual membership fee in exchange for exclusive access to training workshops and seminars.
 

NiTeD

Expert Member
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
1,162
SANRAL would never have received the "award" if SANRAL had not paid R110000 over to IBTTA for "membership fees" since the IBTTA does not give awards out to non-members, and SANRAL nominated itself for this award.



The award was not only for tolling, it was for excellent customer service and service to "the community" :rolleyes:

If you want a ridiculous comparison, compare SANRAL's IBTTA award to an excellence award given to a serial killer for technique and number of victims murdered by an international association of serial killers that charges an annual membership fee in exchange for exclusive access to training workshops and seminars.
I also don't get it, the Engineering Council of SA also gives awards but you have to be a fully paid member to win. You also have to submit your project which is equivalent to self-nomination. I think the DA missed the mark on the this one.
Oh! the municipalities & government departments pay the membership fees for their employees which amounts to millions per year.
 

Vrotappel

Bulls fan
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
24,244
I also don't get it, the Engineering Council of SA also gives awards but you have to be a fully paid member to win. You also have to submit your project which is equivalent to self-nomination. I think the DA missed the mark on the this one.
Oh! the municipalities & government departments pay the membership fees for their employees which amounts to millions per year.

With the Engineering Council you cannot operate at all in the Engineering field if you are not a member. The same with SAICA, ICSA, etc. These organisations serves a purpose with regards to the skills, professinalism, actions of their members. Ibtta seems to give awards without any requirements except the payments of a fee. Is it not the same as buying a matriculation certificate?
 

AnibugZA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
325
With the Engineering Council you cannot operate at all in the Engineering field if you are not a member. The same with SAICA, ICSA, etc. These organisations serves a purpose with regards to the skills, professinalism, actions of their members. Ibtta seems to give awards without any requirements except the payments of a fee. Is it not the same as buying a matriculation certificate?

Incorrect. I am an engineer, and I am not a member of ECSA. You can work as an Engineer without being a registered member of ECSA. I can't however, open my own Engineering consultancy firm or tender for Engineering projects without having professional engineers (ie ECSA-registered and certified professionals) on the board of the firm or heading up the project on tender.

As a doctor though, you have to be registered with the Health Professions Council of SA. Vets have to be registered with the VetCouncil. But only if you want to have your own practice.
 
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