Public Protector staff had to bow to 'Madam' Mkhwebane, Section 194 committee hears

[surface]

Jussis, imagine the outcry if it was 'Madam' Zille that asked her staff to bow.

Don’t call me Madam Premier, Zille tells journalist | The Citizen

After her disciplinary pretrial hearing, she explained that only Julius Malema calls her that.

www.citizen.co.za

 

[daveza]

Mpofu always only trying to put words in the witnesses mouths, and when they don't buy his BS his standard response is - "no no, you don't understand".

They understand very well .

 

[Calkem]

The heading was incorrect. The effect stays the same.

She expected people to rise (stand), every time she entered a room. Not in meeting rooms, at ANY time. So if she walked through the lobby 10 times a day, everyone in the lobby must stand as she enters the room, 10 times a day.

Would you regard this as 'normal decorum'?

The heading and the and the narrative was completely incorrect and false.

As I stated and was stated by the witness CIO in the enquiry this was standard decorum in the PP office, this is not only standard in the PP office but most other private and public bodies. Firstly you can not say that you dont believe the lie (headline) and also in the same space way sate that the article is correct, how can you expect me to believe something of in which the headline is misleading?

Secondly, lets say that BW demanded that people stand in her presence alright, okay..... Why is she been guilty of this when it was before her time that officials where standing in a boardroom stand? It's already facts that she did not instruct anyone to "bow down" to her. Say for example you was in the "lobby" would you be expected to stand for her? And if you didnt what would happen to you? Would the security kick you until you were blue, it doesnt make sense.

Obvi aas ly a staunch supporter of corrupt, criminal people. Fly the 100m flag high.

Let me play the other side of the record here, if I may.....

If you support clear and obvious lies and perjury are you not in support of corruption? As its stands, the affidavit signed by the persons says that it is false that BW

i) Instructed people to "bow down" to her as she walked in the room

If you support lies and not the truth, well go for it, I wont. I'll fly the flag SA 250m high for truth and not for ANC in-fighting, if you want to associate yourself with lying scum to suite your narrative, let it be so. That is why heros like Babita Deokaren get murdered in this country, people are wiliing to attack others based on politcal patronage and not the truth nor justice. If you where a ANC member you would 100% support a 100m flag only on the basis that you a ANC member? It's ridiculous!!!

Its not a sin to request to be called Madam well if I can add my two cents.

It is so ludicrous you refuse to believe it. I guess Zuma doesn't really have a firepool either?

Let me be plain and clear. I do not believe that BW demand that people "bow-down" to her in her presence in any space. ALL the persons who have been witnesses have clealry stated that that it is not true that they had to "literally" bow down to her, they is no one after cross examination who has claimed that its true that people had to bow down to her, they blame the evidence leaders for using "liberal language". If a nod equates to bowing down to someone that you best take a pillow and lie on the floor so we can debate this more.

Hmmm.... So when Thuli Madonsela (TM) entered the room to present the "firepool" report to senior management and they all stood up in her presence was that some sort of abuse of power, because in the same light we should say that they did'nt stand up but actually were "bowing down" to TM?

Im just suspicious of the whole thing, its not about what I believe in, but rather what I dont believe in this case. That the old cow go to pasture, I dont care at all, if only its all fair, but not in this way, kicking an underdog when its down out of hate/reason is not my style.

 

[Calkem]

The Gupta's had their staff bowing and scraping whenever they walked through an office. This is what happens when people who have never learned to exercise authority with dignity suddenly get given the power they can't handle and get superiority complexes.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

"Absolute power corrupts ........." but

“You can't pick and choose which types of freedom you want to defend. You must defend all of it or be against all of it.”

 

[Bewlen]

The heading and the and the narrative was completely incorrect and false.

Heading, yes. Narrative, no. She expected excessive gestures indicating respect. It was her ego. If indeed she expected people to rise whenever she enters a room (note, NOT only a boardroom or at meetings, but everywhere), this is plain egomania.

As I stated and was stated by the witness CIO in the enquiry this was standard decorum in the PP office, this is not only standard in the PP office but most other private and public bodies. Firstly you can not say that you dont believe the lie (headline) and also in the same space way sate that the article is correct, how can you expect me to believe something of in which the headline is misleading?

No it is not. If you, having any sort of C-level experience, expect employees to rise every time you enter a room, I will not work for you. And your production would be abysmal, interrupting processes and concentration of every employee if you just walk through a room and expect to be risen to. Please note the difference between "every instance" , and "normal instances" of decorum, such as meetings. This is crux.

Secondly, lets say that BW demanded that people stand in her presence alright, okay..... Why is she been guilty of this when it was before her time that officials where standing in a boardroom stand? It's already facts that she did not instruct anyone to "bow down" to her. Say for example you was in the "lobby" would you be expected to stand for her?

Boardroom decorum vs every-instance decorum. No-one is confusing the two, except you.

And if you didnt what would happen to you? Would the security kick you until you were blue, it doesnt make sense.

Did you not hear the part where she had one of the employees removed - yes, FIRED - simply because she called her "Busisiwe"? She did not care to engage with concerns, merely had the person removed from office? Did you not follow the testimonials with all the audi letters? Sanctions were blatantly excessive and severe.

 

[TheChamp]

Did you not hear the part where she had one of the employees removed - yes, FIRED - simply because she called her "Busisiwe"? She did not care to engage with concerns, merely had the person removed from office? Did you not follow the testimonials with all the audi letters? Sanctions were blatantly excessive and severe.

I am sure if we were to get the employees charge sheet it would tell a very different story, just saying.

I am of the view that she is a vile person who was on an agenda at the PP's office but I also understand that while some of the accusations could be factual some of them could be hugely exaggerated, it's clear that she wasn't liked, perhaps for good reason but the fact that there was so much bad blood in there means it isn't far fetched that some of the accusations could have some personal spin on them which might or might not be based on facts.

 

[daveza]

Another day of Mpofu getting his ass handed to him by Mogaladi.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Another day of Mpofu getting his ass handed to him by Mogaladi.

My thoughts exactly.. its funny as fsck to watch him get flustered because his bollocks isn't working.

 

[ForceFate]

SA was your only choice. Perth and California didn't recognise your qualifications and the Home Affairs didn't want Rupees.

Indian institutions are recognised in the US and Australia.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Do that with examples to show this perfect fit, Cosmik. Shouldn't be too hard for you.

If you can't see it, you're purposely blind or part of it as most in this country can see it and the media is full of it. Sorry you're deficient in the ethics department.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I am sure if we were to get the employees charge sheet it would tell a very different story, just saying.

I am of the view that she is a vile person who was on an agenda at the PP's office but I also understand that while some of the accusations could be factual some of them could be hugely exaggerated, it's clear that she wasn't liked, perhaps for good reason but the fact that there was so much bad blood in there means it isn't far fetched that some of the accusations could have some personal spin on them which might or might not be based on facts.

And then you go on to tell your unverified and imagined version of what happened and you weren't even there nor did you read the document.

Place the blame and give reasons with no facts. Why aren't I surprised?

 

[Splinter]

The heading and the and the narrative was completely incorrect and false.

As I stated and was stated by the witness CIO in the enquiry this was standard decorum in the PP office, this is not only standard in the PP office but most other private and public bodies. Firstly you can not say that you dont believe the lie (headline) and also in the same space way sate that the article is correct, how can you expect me to believe something of in which the headline is misleading?

Secondly, lets say that BW demanded that people stand in her presence alright, okay..... Why is she been guilty of this when it was before her time that officials where standing in a boardroom stand? It's already facts that she did not instruct anyone to "bow down" to her. Say for example you was in the "lobby" would you be expected to stand for her? And if you didnt what would happen to you? Would the security kick you until you were blue, it doesnt make sense.


Let me play the other side of the record here, if I may.....

If you support clear and obvious lies and perjury are you not in support of corruption? As its stands, the affidavit signed by the persons says that it is false that BW

i) Instructed people to "bow down" to her as she walked in the room

If you support lies and not the truth, well go for it, I wont. I'll fly the flag SA 250m high for truth and not for ANC in-fighting, if you want to associate yourself with lying scum to suite your narrative, let it be so. That is why heros like Babita Deokaren get murdered in this country, people are wiliing to attack others based on politcal patronage and not the truth nor justice. If you where a ANC member you would 100% support a 100m flag only on the basis that you a ANC member? It's ridiculous!!!

Its not a sin to request to be called Madam well if I can add my two cents.



Let me be plain and clear. I do not believe that BW demand that people "bow-down" to her in her presence in any space. ALL the persons who have been witnesses have clealry stated that that it is not true that they had to "literally" bow down to her, they is no one after cross examination who has claimed that its true that people had to bow down to her, they blame the evidence leaders for using "liberal language". If a nod equates to bowing down to someone that you best take a pillow and lie on the floor so we can debate this more.

Hmmm.... So when Thuli Madonsela (TM) entered the room to present the "firepool" report to senior management and they all stood up in her presence was that some sort of abuse of power, because in the same light we should say that they did'nt stand up but actually were "bowing down" to TM?

Im just suspicious of the whole thing, its not about what I believe in, but rather what I dont believe in this case. That the old cow go to pasture, I dont care at all, if only its all fair, but not in this way, kicking an underdog when its down out of hate/reason is not my style.

@cerebus , is this you again?

 

[TheChamp]

And then you go on to tell your unverified and imagined version of what happened and you weren't even there nor did you read the document.

Place the blame and give reasons with no facts. Why aren't I surprised?

I can assure you it won't say the employee is hereby charged with calling the Public Protector by her first name, you can trust me on that Mr Facts Unlimited.

 

[ShaunSA]

Did you not hear the part where she had one of the employees removed - yes, FIRED - simply because she called her "Busisiwe"? She did not care to engage with concerns, merely had the person removed from office? Did you not follow the testimonials with all the audi letters? Sanctions were blatantly excessive and severe.

 

[daveza]

On Monday evening, Mpofu reacted furiously when a tweet purportedly from the late Sibusiso Nyembe, Mkwhebane's special advisor was flighted. He said he had a duty to defend the dignity of the dead. This duty apparently doesn't extend to Abongile Madiba.

- Jan Gerber

 

[daveza]

Wtf are audi letters ?

 

[TheChamp]

Wtf are audi letters ?

Some legal jargon?

 

[daveza]

Even Google doesn't know what audi letters are.

But they seem to dish them out like sweeties at the PPSA.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Wtf are audi letters ?

From what I can gather they're some form of warning letter


Seems to possibly be related to something like audi alteram partem

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I can assure you it won't say the employee is hereby charged with calling the Public Protector by her first name, you can trust me on that Mr Facts Unlimited.

So, which part of your statement can be trusted?