Sign up with Googlextermin8or
Expert Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,815
-
Ask a question and get free supportUnlock new privileges and see hidden discussionsWin prizes and earn reputation
-
Question of the day ~ How often do you braai?
-
Afristay giveaway.Win a 2-night stay for two people at an establishment of your choice with R1,000 in spending money. Enter here.
PW and OR were partners
- Thread starter xtermin8or
- Start date
"This interaction, authorised both by Oliver Tambo and PW Botha, led directly to the first formal negotiations between the ANC leadership in exile and the Botha government. "
interesting, and people in this forum are still dissing him, yeah he did some ****ty things, but at least he made an attempt.
Afrikaners and firstnames - Moff Terreblanche - shame, thats cruel
interesting, and people in this forum are still dissing him, yeah he did some ****ty things, but at least he made an attempt.
Afrikaners and firstnames - Moff Terreblanche - shame, thats cruel
DigitalSoldier
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
- Messages
- 10,185
hehe was thinking that same thing dont even wanne imagine his days at school unless he was a big Moffo(o)
I think the Guardian sums it up best in their obituary:
PW Botha, who has died aged 90, ruled South Africa under apartheid for 11 years until 1989, and was gradually exposed during his long decline as one of the most evil men of the 20th century, committed to state terrorism, war and murder to thwart black majority rule.
PW Botha
PW Botha, who has died aged 90, ruled South Africa under apartheid for 11 years until 1989, and was gradually exposed during his long decline as one of the most evil men of the 20th century, committed to state terrorism, war and murder to thwart black majority rule.
PW Botha
Yzerfontein
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 58
PW Botha
PW Botha was a National Party hack - the only job he ever had. He was a populist who followed the current, bobbing in and out with the tide.
He supported Nazi Germany until it became obvious Hitler was on the losing side. He supported apartheid, but got caught between a rock and a hard place when it was obvious apartheid would fail (but also obvious that he'd lose support amongst afrikaners if he reformed).
PW Botha was a National Party hack - the only job he ever had. He was a populist who followed the current, bobbing in and out with the tide.
He supported Nazi Germany until it became obvious Hitler was on the losing side. He supported apartheid, but got caught between a rock and a hard place when it was obvious apartheid would fail (but also obvious that he'd lose support amongst afrikaners if he reformed).
antowan
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2003
- Messages
- 13,054
I met him once in varsity sometime in 2001 I believe it was. We went to Die Anker to see him. There was a trip organized by various universities for people interested in politics to go down and meet with PW Botha.
He was very friendly and gave us coffee and cookies and spoke about the period of his downfall. A lot of things were said, but one thing that struck me was his frailty and his humility. He had 2 bodyguards on duty in a house that could easily be rushed by a few determined people. He didn't have this demeanor of somebody fearing for his life.
The house was full of memorabilia of his terms in office as minister and president. He did not make any racist comments but had big doubts about the ANC's ability to govern...
Not at all the impression of a dictator or a tyrant. I guess his political opponents got a different view. All in all, the man appeared pleasant. Be it only in an old age...
He was very friendly and gave us coffee and cookies and spoke about the period of his downfall. A lot of things were said, but one thing that struck me was his frailty and his humility. He had 2 bodyguards on duty in a house that could easily be rushed by a few determined people. He didn't have this demeanor of somebody fearing for his life.
The house was full of memorabilia of his terms in office as minister and president. He did not make any racist comments but had big doubts about the ANC's ability to govern...
Not at all the impression of a dictator or a tyrant. I guess his political opponents got a different view. All in all, the man appeared pleasant. Be it only in an old age...
Yeah, and poor old Pinochet is hunted like a dog wherever he goes... boohoo, where is the justice?
I don't think any of the politicians had more than one or two bodyguards at any time. No cavalcades of big black limousines with tinted windows blocking traffic - for PW or FW, just two cars during apartheid times.
Well I mean, who was going to f#k with them?
...mumble... unlike our current political situation...
BTTB
Executive Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2004
- Messages
- 8,195
I agree.
President Mbeki's statement was in good taste.
Personally I feel that talking ill of the dead is not serving any purpose?
If anyone disliked PW they should of told him to his face while he was alive.
End of story.
Personally I told him enough times but seems he wasn't listening.
Was the Guardian speaking ill of the dead? "exposed during his long decline as one of the most evil men of the 20th century, committed to state terrorism, war and murder"
Some may prefer to forget. Others will never.
antowan
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2003
- Messages
- 13,054
Well, his maid (a black woman) seemed to like him. She didn't have the demeanor of somebody who was working in fear for one of the most evil men in the world. Most of the negative things said about the man in the world media and here just doesn't gel with what I saw with my own two eyes.
Could I be mistaken? Perhaps. I doubt it.
I am not speaking of any policies the government of his time had. My meeting with him was 7 years after 1994. I was in school during Apartheid and the last thing on my mind was politics.
All I know is, the man I met sometime 2001 was not akin to a evil dictator.
Perhaps that is the contradiction. Maybe Mugabe is also a nice guy in person.
Politician by day and ordinary person by night?
Last edited:
xtermin8or
Expert Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,815
Well, his maid (a black woman) seemed to like him. She didn't have the demeanor of somebody who was working in fear for one of the most evil men in the world. Most of the negative things said about the man in the world media and here just doesn't gel with what I saw with my own two eyes.
Could I be mistaken? Perhaps. I doubt it.
I am not speaking of any policies the government of his time had. My meeting with him was 7 years after 1994. I was in school during Apartheid and the last thing on my mind was politics.
All I know is, the man I met sometime 2001 was not akin to a evil dictator.
Perhaps that is the contradiction.Maybe Mugabe is also a nice guy in person.
Politician by day and ordinary person by night?
That's right, Ant, I have met Mugabe, at the recent WSSD, and if you didn't know what was happening in Zim, you would think that this man is the hero he once was, and that all he still cares about is the well being of his people - he really does not come across as an evil dictator either
But that is the nature of politicians, they have to make themselves seem likeable - even our own President does it - not sure if you remember - but during his election campaigns he goes door to door - drinking tea and chatting with people - from informal settlements to former white suburbs - I am sure that if you ask those people what they think of him, they will say what a nice man he is - but we know that he is actually very introverted, only concerned with getting done with the business at hand
Latest news on the PW front:
P W Botha's eulogy will be delivered by a Jordanian Arab, and his funeral this Wednesday will be attended by his loyal servant.
That's according to Botha's dominee, Bill Barkley, of the Evangeliese Gereformeerde Kerk in George, who will deliver the sermon, basing it - as requested in Botha's will - on Psalm 23's "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil because Thou, the Lord, art with me".
So while we were throwing people out of 25 story buildings, "I will fear no evil while I walk through the valley of death."
That just about sums it up; these people (George Bush included) believe implicitly they are doing the Lord's work. And it is sanctioned - in the Old Testament (and I remind everybody - these are not the teachings of Christ.)
...had asked that Jordanian Christian evangelist Dr Bajhat Batarseh deliver the eulogy.
"Batarseh has a worldwide ministry," Barkley said. "He's a friend to several Arab kings and to [former prime minister Benjamin] Netanyahu of Israel. PW met Batarseh in about 1989 and they became close friends."
Batarseh's The Way of Light Ministries is a small funder of US President George Bush's Republican Party.
> Nederduitse Gereformeerde Moederkerk (Dutch Reformed Mother church)
Among the mourners will be Leonard Mokoena, whom Barkley described as "a young boy of another nationality with an apron, serving [the Bothas] and loving them with no feeling of serving a master".
WTF.
As the rain swept down from the Outeniqua Mountains over the graveyard in the hilltop hamlet of Hoekwil on Friday, coloured church employees scuttled away from answering the question of what they thought of the man who will be buried there.
Barkley said Botha had joined the "Afrikaans, fundamentalist" evangelical splinter of the NGK because he "wholeheartedly accepted the infallibility and faultlessness of the Bible", and because he was disturbed at the apparent inability of the NGK to take a firm stand on "the big moral questions of the day".
He admitted that although all barriers that prevented people of colour joining the white denomination of the church had long been removed, few, if any, darker faces were to be seen in those congregations.
For those who accuse me of speaking ill of the dead (I'm sorry) but this stuff is fundamental and is still being perpetrated by the likes of George Bush "We have a calling from beyond the stars to stand for freedom." (While we do our best to bring on Armageddon.) - (Including putting nuclear plans on the net 'for those who may find them of use.')
And I spoke out then, as did many of us.
How does our present speaking out make any difference to this government - or telkom for instance.
At least we now have a democracy in this country (broken as it is) - our 'speaking out' must have done some good. I wish this anc government would remember it in their "Great Victory" - handed on a plate by the likes of FW and agreed to by this anc government.
And this government? Equals the government of PW in their mismanagement, non-management, corruption, ill-dealing and ill-intent.
Another scourge on the land perpetrated and supported by the likes of telkom, their minions and the dozens of criminals we have running our government and our seats of power.
When are we going to get decent government in this country? A government that works for the betterment of all? A populace and people in power who don't pay taxes, don't contribute and live as a scourge on the land.
But let's release more prisoners, I mean, our jails are too full. Where is the logic? Where is the good governance? Where is the responsibility?
Where is our president? (oh ya, proclaiming his great victory) - perhaps this is another one we do not need - but then he is never here anyway. So let's continue to play amongst our dead, our raped and our forgotten while perpetrating the most expensive telco costs in the world.
Drunk, forgotten, and dead.
Where to our future?
PW: I will fear no evil November 04 2006
P W Botha's eulogy will be delivered by a Jordanian Arab, and his funeral this Wednesday will be attended by his loyal servant.
That's according to Botha's dominee, Bill Barkley, of the Evangeliese Gereformeerde Kerk in George, who will deliver the sermon, basing it - as requested in Botha's will - on Psalm 23's "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil because Thou, the Lord, art with me".
So while we were throwing people out of 25 story buildings, "I will fear no evil while I walk through the valley of death."
That just about sums it up; these people (George Bush included) believe implicitly they are doing the Lord's work. And it is sanctioned - in the Old Testament (and I remind everybody - these are not the teachings of Christ.)
...had asked that Jordanian Christian evangelist Dr Bajhat Batarseh deliver the eulogy.
"Batarseh has a worldwide ministry," Barkley said. "He's a friend to several Arab kings and to [former prime minister Benjamin] Netanyahu of Israel. PW met Batarseh in about 1989 and they became close friends."
Batarseh's The Way of Light Ministries is a small funder of US President George Bush's Republican Party.
> Nederduitse Gereformeerde Moederkerk (Dutch Reformed Mother church)
Among the mourners will be Leonard Mokoena, whom Barkley described as "a young boy of another nationality with an apron, serving [the Bothas] and loving them with no feeling of serving a master".
WTF.
As the rain swept down from the Outeniqua Mountains over the graveyard in the hilltop hamlet of Hoekwil on Friday, coloured church employees scuttled away from answering the question of what they thought of the man who will be buried there.
Barkley said Botha had joined the "Afrikaans, fundamentalist" evangelical splinter of the NGK because he "wholeheartedly accepted the infallibility and faultlessness of the Bible", and because he was disturbed at the apparent inability of the NGK to take a firm stand on "the big moral questions of the day".
He admitted that although all barriers that prevented people of colour joining the white denomination of the church had long been removed, few, if any, darker faces were to be seen in those congregations.
For those who accuse me of speaking ill of the dead (I'm sorry) but this stuff is fundamental and is still being perpetrated by the likes of George Bush "We have a calling from beyond the stars to stand for freedom." (While we do our best to bring on Armageddon.) - (Including putting nuclear plans on the net 'for those who may find them of use.')
And I spoke out then, as did many of us.
How does our present speaking out make any difference to this government - or telkom for instance.
At least we now have a democracy in this country (broken as it is) - our 'speaking out' must have done some good. I wish this anc government would remember it in their "Great Victory" - handed on a plate by the likes of FW and agreed to by this anc government.
And this government? Equals the government of PW in their mismanagement, non-management, corruption, ill-dealing and ill-intent.
Another scourge on the land perpetrated and supported by the likes of telkom, their minions and the dozens of criminals we have running our government and our seats of power.
When are we going to get decent government in this country? A government that works for the betterment of all? A populace and people in power who don't pay taxes, don't contribute and live as a scourge on the land.
But let's release more prisoners, I mean, our jails are too full. Where is the logic? Where is the good governance? Where is the responsibility?
Where is our president? (oh ya, proclaiming his great victory) - perhaps this is another one we do not need - but then he is never here anyway. So let's continue to play amongst our dead, our raped and our forgotten while perpetrating the most expensive telco costs in the world.
Drunk, forgotten, and dead.
Where to our future?
PW: I will fear no evil November 04 2006
Well, his maid (a black woman) seemed to like him. She didn't have the demeanor of somebody who was working in fear for one of the most evil men in the world. Most of the negative things said about the man in the world media and here just doesn't gel with what I saw with my own two eyes.
Could I be mistaken? Perhaps. I doubt it.
I am not speaking of any policies the government of his time had. My meeting with him was 7 years after 1994. I was in school during Apartheid and the last thing on my mind was politics.
All I know is, the man I met sometime 2001 was not akin to a evil dictator.
Perhaps that is the contradiction. Maybe Mugabe is also a nice guy in person.
Politician by day and ordinary person by night?
So is my Boss....................
