Question: The "CUG"

Rhino · Sep 7, 2004

First off, before I carry on, I am not looking for a fight. I am protecting my own interests. I am in no way pointing any fingers at any1 either. If have have any of my facts wrong, i will gladly gladly retract this post!!

I would like to know about this CUG....
They are apparently "acting" on my (and all MW users) behalf. And while I do appreciate all the effort put in, I dont see how, I can be fairly represented, without me even knowing didly sqat about this.
How do those ppl know what my interests are? How can a handfull of ppl represent fairly, the whole MW userbase? After having no notification, I suddly hear that I have been "represented" AND by notification, I dont mean the myadsl forum. I mean a official release regarding, purpose, method etc. I dont appreciate being included in something I have no knowledge of.

While I am pretty sure, that you motives are genuine, I still dont belive you have any right to act on my behalf.

There are many many ppl who would have great input to that meeting, but where not even aware of it.

There also seems to be a perception both in and out the forus that the CGU, might be "siding" with sentech. AGAIN, If i am wrong pls can something public be made about wot is ACTUALLY going on with the CGU.

If I have the wrong end of the stick, I do appologise, I might verry well have missed something. As I say, Please, I am not looking for a fight. I am just wanting to know what is going on ESPECIALLY if I am being used as a statistic.

I would also like to give credit where it is due, and say thank you to those ppl who made the effort to meet with Sentech. While I might not agree with the way it was done, That doesent take anything away from the fact that you guys did it.

That said, I am on my way out, and I can see that ppl are going to have all sorts of comments (or just gonna delete this post). I am NOT ignoring them, I will reply later on.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Durban Mal Park(36) 39% sig 128k | D-Link Tri-Mode Dual Band Wireless router | PCI 108Mbps wireless card |irc.shadowfire.org #mywireless

nocilah · Sep 7, 2004

Well I think it is fair to assume they want a decent service out of Sentech as I assume you might want.

They did not legally represent any one of us here, so I wouldnt get uptight about that which also means they needn't have gotten anyones approval either.

The guys who met with Sentech certainly seem to know more about networks then me and I believe make a good communication team with Sentech... well better then me I think.

Judging by what has been mentioned they are not siding with Sentech but rather giving Sentech benefit of the doubt... Face it if from tommorrow speeds are good, service is good is Sentech bad then?

Information about the meeting is taking its time... but I think they are concentrating on getting this all right... because it is positive... the meeting and all...

So all I can say is lets wait and see...

Porky · Sep 7, 2004

I tend to agree with rhino and i think he has every right to ask the questions he is especially if he is not getting the results or the service he is paying for... One quick question, why are "certain" posts being deleted??

loosecannon · Sep 7, 2004

i was in the meeting and it was certainly done on behalf of CUG (Closed User Group) and as a closed user group it is not representitive of all MyWi users but of CUG users and certainaly not of myadsl.co.za even though 3 mods were in attendance ...

the meeting was the first positive step in getting what we want [what we paying for] ... we are not siding with sentech in any way in the same way 2 rugby teams dont side with each other the match can get out of hand and blood flow so far our pack of forwards out weighs them [knowlage wise there reputaion is in tact]

and likewise there is often a post mach press announcment they have requested a joint press release and this is acceptable but the match is in progress still the half time wistle has gone and we are discussing our strategy further while reviewing the game so far ...

where the analogy breaks is we have offered our players to coach them [assist in config/setup/advise] but in the context of better service this should be acceptable to all MyWi users ...

please be patient we want the wider community to be aware of the game but not the game plan ... dont want the opposition countering us ...

regardtv · Sep 7, 2004

As an individual there is little chance to interact with Sentech in a meaningful manner.

The closed user group CUG decided to get together and meet with Sentech. While our concerns may be universal we've never presumed to "represent" everyone on this forum.

1) My international speeds are "***"
2) My latency's not right
3) I'm not getting any straight answers

Because of this I joined with other like minded individuals.

Sentech will probably choose to make the meeting public via a press release. The release may indicate universal concerns and problems - we have not at any time represented ourselves as the voice of Mywireless. Once the minutes of the meeting are made available by Sentech it will become clear that each user identified themselves as "Disgrunteled or dissilusioned" ... nothing more.

It is amazing how this has gotten out of hand .... I've beter things to do with my time than spend it here having to read/listen to this.

hArTh · Sep 7, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by regardtv
 

It is amazing how this has gotten out of hand .... I've beter things to do with my time than spend it here having to read/listen to this.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well I'm busy listening to the recording of the meeting (with permission and confidentiality agreement). You know what I'm hearing?

(1) A group of users taking serious time and trouble to help ST understand where, how and why their MW service is failing. Their efforts are to your direct benefit.
(2) A group of company representatives (i.e. Sentech staff) who (appear) to be trying to seriously engage with their users to find out their concerns, to explain where they have made mistakes and how they intend to rectify them.

All in all this is exactly what is NEEDED to get the damn problems sorted out. If Sentech doesn't sort out the problems or breaks their undertakings ... fine ... we tar and feather them in the media. Sentech are going to have multiple competitors breathing down their necks very soon ... so on their heads be it.

But for heavens sake don’t snipe at some of your fellow users who have got off their asses (hint, hint) to try and do something about the problem.

If the transcript is made public some of you are going to feel like complete tits and LGM the most.

Bottom line: Organized groups of users can engage with Sentech to resolve the issues. Single users ranting on message boards achieves **** all.

-Information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.telkom.fokkensuig.co.za
www.poopband.co.za
www.hellkom.co.za
Read about MaD of hellkom being sued for R5million by Telkom:
http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4316

TheRoDent · Sep 7, 2004

The MyWireless Concerned User Group was initially formed (and included LoneGunMan) as a group of people that were willing to 'take Sentech on' a bit more seriously. The group was closed, as there was a need to ensure that those involved were indeed proper users and not snitches, as is oh so often the case on these public forums. The CUG for instance, issued a press release thanks to the help of BuffaloBill, after the whole Sentech open proxy issue.

There was a need to discuss things in private. This initally happened on Yahoo's groups were hArTh created a small list and invited a few people. At that point in fact, it was basically me, hArTh, and the other people who had created protest domains, including Shaun Dewberry for 2600.co.za. The group has since grown to include some technically minded, and rational members of this forum that have been positively identified and have been met face to face (mostly).

We're not representing ANY of you in this user group specifically. We're representing ourselves. It's simply a set of people with a common interest that networked to the point of being around 10-15 members strong.

The CUG's basic constitution is that it has at it's core interest the betterment of internet connectivity in South Africa, and specifically, that of Sentech.

No-one has any "right" to any information from this group any more than you have rights to information about Minister Ivy's department without her consent. You didn't vote for us as the user group and you didn't elect the group. It simply happened. And there is a reason for releasing information in slow manner, since we're releasing information that has to be essentially endorsed by the group. That means we all have to sorta agree on what kind of statement the CUG is making, and this takes some time.

I've heard that today we received the minutes from the meeting on Saturday, and we will be working through those. In the meantime various CUG members are giving their thoughts on how the meeting went and that's just fine too. The CUG can't stop anyone from doing that, aside from insisting that theirs aren't CUG statements or the view of the group as a whole.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How can a handfull of ppl represent fairly, the whole MW userbase?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Quite simply, we can't. And we're not. And we certainly don't need to ask your permission to go and talk to Sentech if we feel like it. If you want, you can do this on your own, but good luck... If you feel excluded, then I'm sorry. It's simply because there's no need for this group to include every single MyWireless customer and it's easier to discuss things in a small group than in a forum with hundreds of members.

The meeting with Sentech wasn't anything more than an exchange of information. That's all it was. And it wasn't all that exciting or "all-revealing". It was just a good start for Sentech getting to know some of it's more vocal customers.

We are certainly not "siding" with Sentech My words to Marcel Raath when I suggested this meeting were: "I think it's time for Sentech to start engaging their customers in a more positive manner". The only way to move forward is to get the information from Sentech we require, and for us to give their management team an idea of the real life situation as we experience it. That's exactly what we did. It's also the reason why the CUG is made up out of more the technical, and calm people than not. Imagine trying to get anywhere during a 3 hour meeting with people wanting to lynch each other across the table.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One quick question, why are "certain" posts being deleted??<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They're not. LoneGunMan is as usual being anal and is editing all his posts in order to remove their content. Nothing anyone can do about that, as it is his right.

The CUG isn't trying to keep information away from anyone here, but understand that it has to be careful in the manner and tone in which it releases such information. That is the process underway now.

In the meantime, as I've always said: You have options, cancel, or continue. The choice is yours, and no information the CUG can or will release should change that choice for you, as I've said there's nothing amazing in it. Make some choices of your own, from your own experience.

Human behaviour amazes me sometimes. When there's something bad going on they'll all yap-yap and get information to gossip about, and bitch and moan. I'm guilty of the same. But when something good happens, or something unknown, they'll immediately turn around and lay blame to it and insist that it must be bad, seeing as "everything has always been bad", and that there must be some kind of "conspiracy theory"

It's just IP for f4cks sake. I don't even hy f4cking MyWireless anymore, so I don't really know why I'm even bothering with this post. Perhaps it's because I have a tendency to finish things instead of leaving them hanging about.

Anyway. There it is. My essay for the week.

<center><h6> MyWireless <s>Hacks</s> Tweaks & Tech Info || Have you checked the fawking FAQ? Tired of Sentech's bad service? Want to compare speeds? We at least listen...</h6></center>

Luke7777 · Sep 7, 2004

Thanx for the heads up.

128K|21%|13SNL|36 Menlopark 2530

noswal · Sep 7, 2004

If something happens good/bad/right/wrong there is a sort of hole created (figurative), and if you know the story to fill that hole and don't, people will tend to fill it for you.

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custenna, variable 8 - 13 signal, ber 28% - 42%. "I am the only one with this problem."

Rhino · Sep 7, 2004

Rodent, Thank you for your answer, It certainly makes things much clearer. The thing I am trying to stress is..
First off according to sentech, the CUG IS representing things for every1.
(2) It it was supposed to be a "closed session" which by all means is good and well, y did it make its way here to the forum?
"There was a need to discuss things in private"

We're not representing ANY of you in this user group specifically. We're representing ourselves. It's simply a set of people with a common interest that networked to the point of being around 10-15 members strong ------------thats all good and well, but the posts dont support that, it looks like its a big "open" discussion...

No-one has any "right" to any information from this group any more than you have rights to information about Minister Ivy's department without her consent. You didn't vote for us as the user group and you didn't elect the group. It simply happened--------as far as any1 can see, IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY this is an open discussion.

Quite simply, we can't. And we're not ----- That was NEVER publicised anywhere, Just look at the minutes topic title, From a outsiders point of view, it looks like its a public thing, not just a 10 user thing.

And we certainly don't need to ask your permission to go and talk to Sentech if we feel like it --- You can do what you want, BUT keep it out of public eyes, ESPECIALLY where 1 cannot tell if its closed or not. My point is, how can any1 know about the "closed" factor???????? Not only that, you talk about having a tendency to "finish things" All good and well, you really have my full support, but look at the "minutes" PART II to follow when i can type. Really now come on, how can any1 expect to think (from general public) that this a "closed" group.

If you feel excluded, then I'm sorry - Its far from that, As far as any1 can tell outside your "closed users" This is a public issue.

We are certainly not "siding" with Sentech My words to Marcel Raath when I suggested this meeting were: "I think it's time for Sentech to start engaging their customers in a more positive manner". --------------Thats great, but you can see how ppl would get the wrong idea, with all the deleted posts and all.

The CUG isn't trying to keep information away from anyone here, but understand that it has to be careful in the manner and tone in which it releases such information. That is the process underway now ----------- Granted, but if that is the case, howcome part of the minutes suddenly become public? Why not wait till issues are at hand?

But when something good happens, or something unknown, they'll immediately turn around and lay blame to it and insist that it must be bad, seeing as "everything has always been bad", and that there must be some kind of "conspiracy theory"----------Get off your high horse, as I have stated a NUMBER of times, if I am wrong I will gladly accept that and appologise. I am not "laying " the blane at any1's door, I am simply stating a fact. The whole issue come accross as a public issure, not a closed group. Its not my fault if its not stated clearly enough.

It's just IP for f4cks sake. I don't even hy f4cking MyWireless anymore, so I don't really know why I'm even bothering with this post. Perhaps it's because I have a tendency to finish things instead of leaving them hanging about ----- Again, as i have allready said, YES,thank you, well done at least sum1 is looking after our interests.

All I am saying is that the perception to ppl outside your "closed group" is that this is a matter of public debate.
Yes, i admit, nowhere does it say u represent all MW users, BUT it doesnt say you dont, AND its on a PUBLIC FORUM...put 2 and 2 together............

Do you at least see my point?

________________________________________________________________________________________

Durban Mal Park(36) 39% sig 128k | D-Link Tri-Mode Dual Band Wireless router | PCI 108Mbps wireless card |irc.shadowfire.org #mywireless

Rhino · Sep 7, 2004

Oh, and Harth....
But for heavens sake don’t snipe at some of your fellow users who have got off their asses (hint, hint) to try and do something about the problem. ----------im not sniping, its actualy not my prob is its not set out the correct way, As this is a public forum I have a right to know. If something was said AT THE START, that this was a "closed" group so be it, they would have my full support, AND STILL DO BY THE WAY!!!!!!!!

If the transcript is made public some of you are going to feel like complete tits and LGM the most. ---- Thats fine, and I will probably be top of that list BUT, Dont dangle little tit bits in front of a person, if u just going to pull it away...

________________________________________________________________________________________

Durban Mal Park(36) 39% sig 128k | D-Link Tri-Mode Dual Band Wireless router | PCI 108Mbps wireless card |irc.shadowfire.org #mywireless

lewstherin · Sep 7, 2004

Rhino the key here is that everyone knows Sentech will try and put spin on anything involving MyWi users. Hell I could go and set fire to Winston's car and Sentech would say I was experimenting with some kind of new bandwidth monitor!

The operative thing is that Sentech lie. Its seems to be a culture for them.
The CUG meeting was an attempt to cut all the crap and get the truth. The guys that went generally have reps for not taking BS, for being techie enough to see through any smokescreen, and mature enough to not wanna spend the meeting bitching over pings.

Will the meeting have a positive impact for all MyWi users? Who knows - the ball is firmly in Sentech's court on that one.
Generally speaking though, one can expect that if Sentech took theRodent's advice on some matters, the service would improve as a whole.

Until you hear something official from the CUG, everything else is either individual members commenting in their own capacity, or someone/Sentech spinning yarns...

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

Rhino · Sep 7, 2004

Yes, but concidering members of the "closed users" are moderators here, I would not have thought threads like "minutes topic" would not have gotten so far.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Durban Mal Park(36) 39% sig 128k | D-Link Tri-Mode Dual Band Wireless router | PCI 108Mbps wireless card |irc.shadowfire.org #mywireless

MrGray · Sep 7, 2004

It's all pretty irrelevant at the end of the day - people are going to bail out of Sentech left, right and centre and the usual South African bonfire of the vanities over these things will be pretty insignificant.

Telkom's bringing out cheap 384kbps ADSL, iBurst is coming on the scene in months, other broadband licencees are going to be starting all over the place in the next 12 months and Sentech, CUG or not, will be dead in the water within six months if its service levels remain the same, and frankly they deserve every bit of it.

I don't understand why Sentech is even in the situation it is. If they were so incredibly incompetent and amateurish as to roll out a mass marketed broadband network nationally without so much as having competent network engineers in place that can implement something as simple as a contended network and then need to experiment with their users and network for four months just to get their equipment configured correctly, and to top it off take a hostile and unhelpful attitude towards their subscribers, they deserve to go the way of the dinosaurs.

There are tons of alternatives coming up now and they have cooked their goose. It really doesn't seem worth the effort of squabbling over it.

There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of by mere mortal men - Shakespeare

James · Sep 7, 2004

*looks around desperatly for RPM to end the madness*

There is no peace without war!!!

regardtv · Sep 7, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">thats all good and well, but the posts dont support that, it looks like its a big "open" discussion...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Granted, but if that is the case, howcome part of the minutes suddenly become public? Why not wait till issues are at hand?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Uhm .. did you not notice the public outrage and pressure from forum members to make our information public ? We CUG decided to release "SOMETHING" in order to settle people down - that seems to have backfired. In retrospect I think our silence would have been far less hassle... Next time, just ignore everyone ... far simpler

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yes, i admit, nowhere does it say u represent all MW users, BUT it doesnt say you dont, AND its on a PUBLIC FORUM...put 2 and 2 together............<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nowhere are ANY CUG members required to indicate that we do/dont represent anyone. People make assumptions that are often wildly wrong.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Thats great, but you can see how ppl would get the wrong idea, with all the deleted posts and all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I believe there was 1 topic accidentally deleted by myself. I have apologised for this and I'm sure if we ask RPM nicely we could recover it. If you are however referring to the series of BLANK posts attributed to LoneGunman - please talk to HIM as he's decided to remove his OWN posts.

If you have any specific issue with the removal/editing of a post by a moderator PLEASE feel free to take it up with the moderator concerned or with RPM.

[Rant off] - Time for a break from myadsl...

Rhino · Sep 7, 2004

ummm Pr13sT, if u hadent noticed there are allready moderators on this thread...

________________________________________________________________________________________

Durban Mal Park(36) 39% sig 128k | D-Link Tri-Mode Dual Band Wireless router | PCI 108Mbps wireless card |irc.shadowfire.org #mywireless

regardtv · Sep 7, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yes, but concidering members of the "closed users" are moderators here, I would not have thought threads like "minutes topic" would not have gotten so far.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why would a moderator want to delete information that the CUG has made public ?

If something in that topic is offensive to you please indicate this and it will be reviewed and deleted if required - hope that is to your satisfaction ?

nocilah · Sep 7, 2004

I think sentech have got no idea on how to relate to the public and have probably been using corporate relation strategies on the public... but the problem is a community of people can band so easy to fight sentech... as we have seen.

I think when any form of leadership is exhibited in any form of community you will get those who grow suspicious of them or simply disagree with them.

I speak for myself when I have seen certain memebers of this forum being sniped upon by the CUG and vice versa it really is a great lesson in micro sociology.

We have "CUG" who have over three days almost reached the level of the "nobels", and dont get me wrong, This wasnt their fault, this was kinda of thrown on them, ****, I think I may have even helped there a bit.

We then have the "peasants", the uninformed, the younge, the restless who so much wish they were able to know what the "nobels" were up to. Damn I am a peasant

We have the "madmen" who delete all their posts in a fit of insanity.

And finally we have the "bad King" which is Sentech.

The "nobles" have done their fair share of communication. The "peasants' have done their fair share of rioting. The "madmen" seem to be MIA and finally the "bad KING" is as always silent but no doubt watching.

regardtv · Sep 7, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pr13sT
 *looks around desperatly for RPM to end the madness*
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The problem here is that if I lock/delete this thread you can just imagine the "new" uproar...

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