'Race specific' client, agent reject Cape Town man's apartment rental query, agency drops landlord

Gyre

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BEE is not a choice of the majority. The majority is excluded from BEE. It's a choice of the ANC elite, their families, friends and patronage network as it gives access for little effort to the legal theft of the riches of people of a single demographic that worked hard to build those riches.

How successful would Ramaphosa have been as a businessman if there was no BEE?

I agree, but you also have to wonder how discriminated against he would have been if there wasn't BEE. People can be funny and I have worked around a lot of racist people in my life, from all demographs. I had my own father taken to the CCMA for a misinterpreted phrase, then again I also had a manager resign because he didn't want to report to a black superior(which he made very clear with a couple of racial slurs).

It's tricky(as the estate agent said), you want to give people want they want even tho it is wrong, but it isn't your job to enforce it. Then again things are never going to get better if you keep looking away.

Racism isn't acceptable, but apart from wagging our fingers what can we do about it?
 

JustAsk

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I still think if ANC government were not as discriminating & racist, and growing the country... we would not have so many race issues. But if your government goes heavy handed toward everyone except 1 race... then yea.
Great analytical thought their einstein.

If the illegitimate NP government were not as discriminating & racist, and growing the country... we would not have so many race issues. But if your government goes heavy handed toward everyone except 1 race... then yea.

Baby steps, but i think you starting to grasp it.
 

Gyre

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Thats what I said.

She might just had some bad experience with a certain race. It has nothing to do with racism, but we want to make it racism.

Hating a certain race and not want to rent to a certain race is not the same at all.


I am sure if she had bad experience with white people it will be the same argument.

That is actually racism. If one white guy kicks me, I don't think all white guys are going to kick me.

Judging a person based on their race instead of their individuality IS racism. it isn't Nazi or KKK level racism, but it is.
 
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Gyre

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The level of passive racism or people not knowing what racism actually is in this thread alone, is actually depressing :cautious:
 

TelkomUseless

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Great analytical thought their einstein.

If the illegitimate NP government were not as discriminating & racist, and growing the country... we would not have so many race issues. But if your government goes heavy handed toward everyone except 1 race... then yea.

Baby steps, but i think you starting to grasp it.

Rinse and repeat the past...
 

Cray

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Why is it such a big thing to have a preference of tenants?

If this client had numerous issues previously with a certain race is it not her right to choose a certain group of people she wants to rent to?

But because race is mentioned every one goes ape shyte.

I am not saying that white / coloured or Asian would also have issues or leave the apartment in such a state that you spent 1000's of rands to fix the place up for the next tenant.

Unfortunately if your tenants act up they call you as landlord not the tenants.
Seriously, wondering why race based discrimination is a big deal, in this country? How long have you lived in South Africa?
 

diesel

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Why don't you (personally you) pull up your socks and make an effort to improve your poverty? I heard this in Conservative forums so just passing it on.
I do every day , and i am pretty good at it, not pleading poverty.

I just dont have patience for self pity from a privileged majority that doesnt mind racism when it suites them and cries fowl when things dont go their way.
 
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Acid0

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Seriously, wondering why race based discrimination is a big deal, in this country? How long have you lived in South Africa?
Couple of years, but if everything is made out to be racist it starts to lose its appeal.

Some of us gets reminded everyday(even by our leaders) that we are thieves.
 

Cray

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Couple of years, but if everything is made out to be racist it starts to lose its appeal.

Some of us gets reminded everyday(even by our leaders) that we are thieves.
Stating that a client can be denied a contract based on race is pretty much the definition of racism. It's a touchy subject in this country as it was law for so many years and the country is trying to move away from that.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Really? You personally applied for a state tender and were denied because you are not black?

Whites don't even bother as they know the tender award, the cost and how the extra money will be divvied up is predetermined, as well as the backhander percentages to the ANC's coffers. The opening of tenders is just a formality and eye blind.
 

JustAsk

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She might just had some bad experience with a certain race. It has nothing to do with racism, but we want to make it racism.

Hating a certain race and not want to rent to a certain race is not the same at all.
Why is it such a big thing to have a preference of tenants?

If this client had numerous issues previously with a certain race is it not her right to choose a certain group of people she wants to rent to?
Great. Pitty you are never there supporting the natives for voting ANC and not for DA. You are never there to support them if they say they are not voting DA because of the thread of them bring back apartheid. Whether that is correct or wrong, you are never there to defend their right...i mean blacks have had "numerous issues previously with a certain race".
 

Fulcrum29

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If you want to make race a criteria then it's your choice. If the landlord want to... then it's their choice.

I'm sure it goes all ways.. there are indians that won't rent to white/black/indan etc. Maybe they had a bad experience with white people.. and scrapped them.

I don't agree with exclusion, I abhor exclusion, it is the same reason I vehemently oppose our state policies. Remember, the Yes4Youth controversy, and when they corrected that due to court action it was still exclusive because 'points' wouldn't be earned with a certain candidacy or simply no incentive in employing the white youth. Then all the other racial mechanisms, but this thread isn’t about that, it is about some random, and unknown, landlord and an agent.

The landlord discriminated, the agent obliged, but it was the agent’s responsibility to take it up with the principal. I don’t know what happened. Johnson clearly engaged with Osei on WhatsApp regarding the lease and its term, so something happened during this course. Perhaps Johnson did take it up with the agency, and they told her to deal with it, and she did, but not in the correct manner.

An agency must know their client's criterion with whom they have a contract. It is possible that Live Real Estate didn’t know, but Tyson Properties did, so it was open to miscommunication given the small window in which Johnson became an employer (or whatever). These companies all run an CRM, sure they update their database on property interests, viewings, etc… prospecting, recommendations, etc. In my view, Live Real Estate is also not being honest about something given their initial response versus their latest, and why does Tyson Properties clean up some related criticism on their socials?

All in all, this shouldn’t become a us versus them matter, the all too common, white versus others debate. This is a debate applicable to all races. One word in caps, “PREJUDICE”, and the conditions and circumstances in this country, through the state, has largely enhanced said word in caps. It goes deeper than race, peoples culture, traditions and, well, religion are all opposed by others. We are all minorities, but it is the minorities who align themselves to be the many.

I don't like to be stigmatised due to someone else's action. Cape Town is cursed with this.
 

KingMikel

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I'm gonna come right out and say it...

I'd have declined him because of his crazy hair style, nothing else.

In all seriousness, my opinion though is that you as the landlord may decline whoever you choose, but if your reasons for declination are based upon discriminatory reasons, throw a BS reason out if you wish to avoid a shitstorm.

I've had a young white male in my flat, a young white lady and now a young black lady. All of them were accepted because they had stable jobs, earned enough to pay rent comfortably and had clean credit records.

I've declined a black couple because their TPN profile was atrocious and their credit record was non existent. I've declined Pakistanis because they were not able to furnish bank account statements despite being willing to pay for 6 months up front.

Discrimination is not logical. It is a learned behaviour, the only way to unlearn it is by exposure to the thing (in this case black people) you're discriminating against.
 

Cosmik Debris

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POOR people are reproducing at a much higher rate, the bulk of poor people happen to be black.

And that reproductive rate keeps them poor. Vicious cycle of poverty. You can't legislate people out of poverty just like you can't welfare people into prosperity nor tax a country into prosperity. All three are being attempted by the SA government and are ANC policies.
 
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