Ramaphosa places South Africa on level 2 lockdown

surface

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Since we are talking about "midnight", let us hear it from engels, ne? You all pseudo-engels can take a hike. :p


To avoid confusion, it is always better to use the 24-hour clock, so that 12:00 is 12 noon. Therefore 24:00 Sunday or 00:00 Monday are both midnight meaning Sunday to Monday.

It is common for transport timetables to use 23:59 Sunday or 00:01 Monday, or 11:59 pm or 12:01 am, to further reduce confusion.


There are no standards established for the meaning of 12am and 12pm. It is often said that 12am Monday is midnight on Monday morning and 12pm is midday. This puts all the times beginning with 12 and ending with am in the same one-hour block, similarly with those ending with pm.
 

binkybozo

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Gyms..

Monday many people will be cancelling contract
Yes, we have lost over 50% of our members at the dojo even though our Kancho has told everyone to just keep coming and that they can work out the fees later when they can afford to.
 

John Tempus

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Yes, we have lost over 50% of our members at the dojo even though our Kancho has told everyone to just keep coming and that they can work out the fees later when they can afford to.
Yup, government lined up and shot all the prisoners except for one. By leaving this one prisoner alive they can now claim moral high ground as to how good natured and reasonable they are.

Too little, too late.
 

John Tempus

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They can close earlier to allow their patrons time to go home on time.
And how exactly does that help the restaurants or bars in making up for lost revenue ? Anyone going there would have to stop drinking hours earlier not at 21:30 else they will just run into the law for drunk driving. This curfew is putting a huge pothole in front of allowing alcohol sales and I bet it was kept just to make sure Queen Kopdoek still have her fingers on the pie.
 

ForceFate

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And how exactly does that help the restaurants or bars in making up for lost revenue ? Anyone going there would have to stop drinking hours earlier not at 21:30 else they will just run into the law for drunk driving. This curfew is putting a huge pothole in front of allowing alcohol sales and I bet it was kept just to make sure Queen Kopdoek still have her fingers on the pie.
That applies irrespective of a curfew or not. Drunk driving is a major contributor to many road accidents thus, should not be encouraged. If you're planning to get absolutely plastered, rather stock your own bar and drink in the safety of your living/bedroom.

What time do bar normally close?
 

John Tempus

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That applies irrespective of a curfew or not. Drunk driving is a major contributor to many road accidents thus, should not be encouraged. If you're planning to get absolutely plastered, rather stock your own bar and drink in the safety of your living/bedroom.

What time do bar normally close?
Before lockdown most alcohol licenses were up to 2am, some had up to 4am.

Of course drunk driving or driving intoxicated is illegal before lockdown and after lockdown but my point is that if they are enforcing a curfew at 10pm then bars/restaurants would have to stop selling alcohol at 8pm just to give at least some grace for anyone who had alcohol even someone who had 1 drink would need at least 1-2hrs to not register on a breathalizer above the legal limit.

Also the curfew does not allow someone to get drunk at a bar and then sleep over nearby without the need to drive home. Sure people will do this but its illegal based on the curfew laws and the government apparently did not think this one through at all.

Without a curfew bars would usually stop selling alcohol an hour before closing time exactly for this reason.
 

Geoff.D

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Since we are talking about "midnight", let us hear it from engels, ne? You all pseudo-engels can take a hike. :p

The only part of that quote that is 100% correct is this part:

To avoid confusion, it is always better to use the 24-hour clock, so that 12:00 is 12 noon. Therefore 24:00 Sunday or 00:00 Monday are both midnight meaning Sunday to Monday.
The rest of the article attempts to justify the confusing rubbish used in failed attempts at trying to make sense of the poor understanding of the 12-hour clock format.
 

ToxicBunny

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The only part of that quote that is 100% correct is this part:



The rest of the article attempts to justify the confusing rubbish used in failed attempts at trying to make sense of the poor understanding of the 12-hour clock format.
So then midnight Monday is the start of Monday according to that snippet you quoted.
 

surface

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The rest of the article attempts to justify the confusing rubbish used in failed attempts at trying to make sense of the poor understanding of the 12-hour clock format.
Yes, you said this couple of times here. Do you have another source (other than you) which states your position?
 

Geoff.D

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So then midnight Monday is the start of Monday according to that snippet you quoted.
One has to take into account what was written before the word "Sunday" -- "24:00 Sunday" is midnight on Sunday (evening).
One has to take into account what was written before the word "Monday" -- "00:00 Monday" is (midnight) in the morning of Monday.
Hence, in the context of the sentence as written, the meaning is absolutely clear and unambiguous, --- it is the transition between Sunday and Monday.

To properly understand and comprehend the President's words, the context must be taken into account,
as well as what the word "from" means and what role it plays in defining what the phrase "from midnight Monday" then means.

To do that, one needs to know what "from" means, how the word is used in that context, how it then influences or qualifies what "midnight" means and finally what precise time of the day is being referred to generally accepted as being part of "Monday".

And it appears that all of this is just too much of a challenge to many these days because they have never mastered the subtleties of the English language and its grammar rules.

To cut a long story short ( but if you want, I can spell it out in all the detail), the phrase "from midnight Monday" describes the transition between Monday and Tuesday, which hopefully, everyone agrees only occurs in the middle of the night at "midnight".

IF you want to define all of this in numerical (mathematical) terms, then "midnight" has TWO ways of describing the same point.
1. 24:00 Monday, (meaning midnight) and;
2. 00:00 Tuesday (meaning morning),
both defining the same point.

It is incorrect to talk about Tuesday midnight in this context because Tuesday has yet to happen and pass to the end.
"Midnight Monday", therefore, means the end of "Monday", not the start of Tuesday because Tuesday has yet to happen.
 
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Geoff.D

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Yes, you said this couple of times here. Do you have another source (other than you) which states your position?
Go and read a decent English (Oxford English) dictionary ( NOT and American English dictionary).
 

JustAsk

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Can't believe people have problems with it. Geezus, and these are assumed to be the educated bunch.

They'll understand Monday 23h59, but no, add 1 minute to it and all comprehension flies out the door.

As Geoff.D stated...24hoo Monday means the same thing as 00h00 Tuesday. 24H00 belongs to NO day it is an even point --> middle night. Stating the day will decide which time (24hoo or 00h00) you will use:
  • Mon - 24h00 tells you that it is 1 minute after 23h59 of the Monday.
  • Tue - 00h00 tells you that it is 1 minute before 00h01, the starting of the Tuesday.
If you use Mon, you have to use 24h00 or midnight, if you use Tuesday you can only use 00h00.
 
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Blue Shirt

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This is just typical of the mybb crowd. Everyone would rather debate when midnight starts than to focus on the real issues.

One of those issues is the continued curfew which to my mind remains an unacceptable infringement of my constitutional right to freedom of movement. Any curfew is irrational as the corona does not care about the time of day. The ANC idiots in charge apply the same faulty logic this this and other irrational bans for nefarious purposes of increasing their grip on the neck of the citizens of this godforsaken country.

I sincerely hope that the average man in the street will remember how the ANC treated them when the next election comes around. What gives me some hope is the fact the Ramaposer seems on the brink of losing the support of Cosatu, an organisation that he once led.
 

ToxicBunny

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Can't believe people have problems with it. Geezus, and these are assumed to be the educated bunch.

They'll understand Monday 23h59, but no, add 1 minute to it and all comprehension flies out the door.

As Geoff.D stated...24hoo Monday means the same thing as 00h00 Tuesday. 24H00 belongs to NO day it is an even point --> middle night. Stating the day will decide which time (24hoo or 00h00) you will use:
  • Mon - 24h00 tells you that it is 1 minute after 23h59 of the Monday.
  • Tue - 00h00 tells you that it is 1 minute before 00h01, the starting of the Tuesday.
If you use Mon, you have to use 24h00 or midnight, if you use Tuesday you can only use 00h00.
We all understand it because the precedent has been set, but it doesn't remove the ambiguity from the usage. Why not just say we'll move to level 2 on Tuesday the 18th as they intend to do? Then there would be zero fscking room for misinterpretation.
 

Geoff.D

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This is just typical of the mybb crowd. Everyone would rather debate when midnight starts than to focus on the real issues.

One of those issues is the continued curfew which to my mind remains an unacceptable infringement of my constitutional right to freedom of movement. Any curfew is irrational as the corona does not care about the time of day. The ANC idiots in charge apply the same faulty logic this this and other irrational bans for nefarious purposes of increasing their grip on the neck of the citizens of this godforsaken country.

I sincerely hope that the average man in the street will remember how the ANC treated them when the next election comes around. What gives me some hope is the fact the Ramaposer seems on the brink of losing the support of Cosatu, an organisation that he once led.
Unfortunately, you are correct, because the other debate actually requires lots of effort to debate, and requires a deep understanding of many underlying issues and principles.

(in technical terms, this is equivalent to arguing about the colour of a label on a piece of equipment, instead of the principles behind the need to label equipment).

So to be able to debate why the curfew is there, we need to understand what drove the government to impose a curfew in the first place. We have never been given any detailed rationale behind any of the SoD regulations.
 
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