Ramaphosa slammed after suggesting that prisoners should do hard labour

[TheMightyQuinn]

He isn't wrong. In a civil matter the guilty party is responsible to repay damages, why not in a criminal matter.

If you use an insurer as the middleman that's your problem and has nothing to do with the principle.

Which is covered by his/her insurance....

 

[Urist]

Trick is not to make it slave labor. could be a n optional skills learning programme for a reduced sentence maybe? for non-violent criminals. Fixing potholes and such.

 

[wbot]

I bet the vast majority of DA supporters actually 100% agree with Ramaphosa and Lamola. The vast majority of South Africans as well.

I do for a change.

It's like the very confused DA feel sorry for murderers and rapists and want them to have very nice, comfy lives behind bars.

 

[rietrot]

Really people?

You want to praise a communist government for wanting to create work camps?

Read a book called One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich by Solzhenitsyn.

The DA are correct here.

The problem with communist work camps isn't the camps themselves, but how people end up there.

There's no reason for real criminals not to literally pay for their crimes.

 

[rietrot]

Which is covered by his/her insurance....

Not everyone has insurance.

 

[diesel]

Screw prisoners and their rights, I feel the second you commit a crime or infringe on another persons rights in any criminal act you waiver your own rights and should be dealt with accordingly.

The sooner we get tough on criminals the sooner they will stop, Arabs dont have a problem with crime because everybody knows the consequences.

 

[konfab]

There's no reason for real criminals not to literally pay for their crimes.

In South Africa, with its chronically high unemployment, it economically cannot happen.

You can maybe have it in a country with very low unemployment like the US, but it should really be there as a voluntary thing that they can do to help their families whilst they are in prison. And the purpose of it shouldn't be there as punishment or as "paying for their crime". It should be there to help them become normal people who won't commit crime.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-bozelko-prison-labor-20171020-story.html

 

[konfab]

Screw prisoners and their rights, I feel the second you commit a crime or infringe on another persons rights in any criminal act you waiver your own rights and should be dealt with accordingly.

Good thing the police are fine upstanding members of society who never get anything wrong. And all judges are perfect creations of God who never make mistakes.

You can get thrown in prison for calling someone a nasty word here in the People's Republik of South Africa.

The sooner we get tough on criminals the sooner they will stop, Arabs dont have a problem with crime because everybody knows the consequences.

Oh wonderful example there...

In 2009, the Saudi Gazette reported that a 23-year-old, unmarried woman was sentenced to one year in prison and 100 lashes for adultery. This woman had been gang-raped, became pregnant, and had tried (unsuccessfully) to abort the fetus. The flogging was postponed until after the delivery.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Saudi_Arabia

 

[access]

i read up about self-sustaining prisons quickly last night.

seems like a good idea, has some flaws that need to be sorted out though.

 

[GhostSixFour]

I do think we need to reintroduce the concept of life imprisonment into this country, where a person will never be allowed to re-integrate, but it should be reserved for the most heinous of criminal behaviour.

But yes, inmates do need to have an opportunity to gain skills and possibly earn some money (but it should not be at the expense of the taxpayer, it needs to be provided for within a system that lessens the burden prisoners are on the national fiscus)

I don't see why these criminals can't be given an apprenticeship of some sorts - teach them fitting and turning, teach them automotive repairs, let them maintain the fleet of government vehicles, let them build the RDP houses etc.

Not necessarily hard labour as such, but once they get out they have skills and can integrate into society better. Only problem then, is people committing crimes to get a spot in such a program.

 

[Sinbad]

I think the DA are being very smart here.

It's well known and documented that the ANC will NEVER implement anything that the opposition suggests or supports. They also wipe their collective arse with the constitution and human rights.

By slamming this idea in these terms, the DA is giving the ANC the motivation to actually implement it.

 

[rietrot]

In South Africa, with its chronically high unemployment, it economically cannot happen.

You can maybe have it in a country with very low unemployment like the US, but it should really be there as a voluntary thing that they can do to help their families whilst they are in prison. And the purpose of it shouldn't be there as punishment or as "paying for their crime". It should be there to help them become normal people who won't commit crime.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-bozelko-prison-labor-20171020-story.html

SA might have high unemployment, but we don't have a high number of people that actually want to work. There's a difference, and we can do with some cheap labour.

The only real problem as with anything is how will the ANC fsck it up.

 

[rietrot]

I think the DA are being very smart here.

It's well known and documented that the ANC will NEVER implement anything that the opposition suggests or supports. They also wipe their collective arse with the constitution and human rights.

By slamming this idea in these terms, the DA is giving the ANC the motivation to actually implement it.

I think you give them too much credit. It's all about political point scoring, and if the ANC does this and look good the DA loses.

 

[saturnz]

amazing how people are in support of slavery all of a sudden

 

[rietrot]

amazing how people are in support of slavery all of a sudden

Slavery is people ownership. Locking them up is already taking away their freedom.

You could just as well put the slaves to work, there's no need to just have them be idle.

 

[saturnz]

Slavery is people ownership. Locking them up is already taking away their freedom.

You could just as well put the slaves to work, there's no need to just have them be idle.

so now we justify slavery as well

 

[zulucat]

amazing how people are in support of slavery all of a sudden

Asking people to earn their keep is not slavery. When I was growing up at home, I would clean, wash house windows, parent's cars, polish their shoes etc... And NO, I did not volunteer my services.

All of a sudden people are being overly sensitive about thugs who have no qualms putting a bullet between your eyes and raping your loved ones. You are all now champions of human rights?

 

[saturnz]

Asking people to earn their keep is not slavery. When I was growing up at home, I would clean, wash house windows, parent's cars, polish their shoes etc... And NO, I did not volunteer my services.

All of a sudden people are being overly sensitive about thugs who have no qualms putting a bullet between your eyes and raping your loved ones. You are all now champions of human rights?

I haven't expressed an opinion on slavery, I just want to confirm that what I'm seeing in this thread is people advocating for slavery and justifying it.

 

[zulucat]

I haven't expressed an opinion on slavery, I just want to confirm that what I'm seeing in this thread is people advocating for slavery and justifying it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making prisoners do involuntary work. Calling it slavery is taking it too far though...

 

[saturnz]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making prisoners do involuntary work. Calling it slavery is taking it too far though...

but it is slavery, thats what they call it in the US of A

Penal labor in the United States, including a form of slavery or involuntary servitude, is explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. This form of legal slavery is only allowed when used as punishment for committing a crime.