Ramaphosa's Eskom rescue plan means the power utility might have to ask for a higher tariff increase

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wingnut771

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mypetcow said:
  • free grants --> Grants are by definition free - can't really let the poorest of the poor population just die on the streets either
  • free water --> See above. Also the cost to treat sick people is more than the cost of providing clean water to people so that they don't get sick
  • free basic electricity --> See above. It's for a minimal amount. When you're prepared to pay your gardener or maid R50 an hour or R400 a day they won't need to free electricity to cook food or to charge their phone when back home.
  • salary increases for parliament --> Got to keep up with inflation - just because your employment contract doesn't account for inflation doesn't mean theirs shouldn't
  • De Ruyter salary R7m --> Pretty low for a CEO of a company of this size. Clover's CEO for instance earns something like R40m a year...
  • South Africa’s government has spent R1,981,000.00 ($116,147.34) on the procurement and installation of electricity generators at the homes of its Ministers since 2021 and a further R652,750.00 ($38,211.82) since the first half of 2022 --> Can't run a country if your ministers are unavailable. As with any company government will provide their employees with the tools and tech needed for them to do their job despite all issues surrounding them that still need to be resolved (i.e. load shedding)

Also just get yourself a small solar system to offset your cost to Eskom. You don't need to go backup battery and all for now, just minimise the what you need to buy from Eskom...Either that or sell your house and rent i back or voice your concern to your local mayor (seriously) ;)
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Everytime you post something you make me think of this guy:
giphy.gif
 
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G

Gaz{M}

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But surely, if Eskom can't generate enough coal power, then they don't need higher tariffs to buy the top up energy from private power producers? Especially since IPPs are below 50c/kwh and falling.
 
R13...

R13...

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Or Eskom could try something sensible like closing down the power stations that are FUBAR. Should save a ton in labour costs. And if they need to bring in skilled people at additional cost then what happens with those already hired to do those jobs, can't surely be meaning to keep both?
 
R13...

R13...

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Gaz{M} said:
But surely, if Eskom can't generate enough coal power, then they don't need higher tariffs to buy the top up energy from private power producers? Especially since IPPs are below 50c/kwh and falling.
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Problem is Eskom must buy additional power while also keeping the running costs of the coal power stations that aren't providing any MWs to the grid. So IPPs are an added cost because of their own base cost. In an ideal world, IPPs ought to be replacing Eskom MWs as Eskom closes down their fossils.
 
M

Magnum

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mypetcow said:
  • free grants --> Grants are by definition free - can't really let the poorest of the poor population just die on the streets either
  • free water --> See above. Also the cost to treat sick people is more than the cost of providing clean water to people so that they don't get sick
  • free basic electricity --> See above. It's for a minimal amount. When you're prepared to pay your gardener or maid R50 an hour or R400 a day they won't need to free electricity to cook food or to charge their phone when back home.
  • salary increases for parliament --> Got to keep up with inflation - just because your employment contract doesn't account for inflation doesn't mean theirs shouldn't
  • De Ruyter salary R7m --> Pretty low for a CEO of a company of this size. Clover's CEO for instance earns something like R40m a year...
  • South Africa’s government has spent R1,981,000.00 ($116,147.34) on the procurement and installation of electricity generators at the homes of its Ministers since 2021 and a further R652,750.00 ($38,211.82) since the first half of 2022 --> Can't run a country if your ministers are unavailable. As with any company government will provide their employees with the tools and tech needed for them to do their job despite all issues surrounding them that still need to be resolved (i.e. load shedding)

Also just get yourself a small solar system to offset your cost to Eskom. You don't need to go backup battery and all for now, just minimise the what you need to buy from Eskom...Either that or sell your house and rent i back or voice your concern to your local mayor (seriously) ;)
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You can't really compare eskom to Clover. Clovers at least sells something, Even if it is sour milk....
 
O

Oldfut

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R13... said:
Or Eskom could try something sensible like closing down the power stations that are FUBAR. Should save a ton in labour costs. And if they need to bring in skilled people at additional cost then what happens with those already hired to do those jobs, can't surely be meaning to keep both?
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Or sell, at least try to sell the bloody things. Try get the highest possible price; no BEE etc etc. Just sell them (with a promise to let them generate into the national grid)! Sigh, not that an ANC Eskom promise means much.
 
M

mypetcow

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TEXTILE GUY said:
  • free grants --> Create an environment conducive to employment
  • free water --> See above.
  • free basic electricity --> See above.
  • salary increases for parliament --> Paid for by the taxpayer who may not have had that benefit
  • De Ruyter salary R7m --> See above
  • South Africa’s government has spent R1,981,000.00 ($116,147.34) on the procurement and installation of electricity generators at the homes of its Ministers since 2021 and a further R652,750.00 ($38,211.82) since the first half of 2022 --> poorest of the poor, or the entitled of the entitled?
Its just crazy in SA right now.


Apart from paying tax, (for services) we must fork out for solar, and a jo jo tank, and a security company, (ie) pay twice, once for a dysfunctional public service and twice for a functional private service ........... eish.

Also consider

That would be people, whose salaries we pay, who have squandered our (the taxpayer, not the poorest of the poor, our) money.

Personally, I have lost all hope in the government and the direction that they are sending us.

They have reamed the taxpayer so badly, even the groot gat in Kimberly looks like a virgin.
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Just like my comparison yours isn't 100% correct regarding who is a tax payer and who contributes how much to government income.

Everyone in SA is a tax payer...everyone. It doesn't have to be income tax necessairily. VAT is...Value Added Tax. Every time someone buys something in a shop they pay VAT.
Companies also pay corporate tax.
There is also import tax on various products.
Also excise tax...i.e. when you make beer, wine, gin etc.

So as much as I would like to have pity that you and 5.2m other fellow South Africans are shouldering the majority of the tax revenue for government I can rest assured that you probably are not.

Also creating "an environment conducive to employment" is nice on paper but what do you do with the people who don't have any employment in the mean time? Hunger games? Let them die? I would think not. Rather support them a little and thus enable the creation of "an environment conducive to employment". Last time I checked hungry people make for bad workers.
 
grok

grok

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R13... said:
Or Eskom could try something sensible like closing down the power stations that are FUBAR. Should save a ton in labour costs. And if they need to bring in skilled people at additional cost then what happens with those already hired to do those jobs, can't surely be meaning to keep both?
Click to expand...
Eskom stopped being sensible just before they chased experienced people & replaced with inexperienced ones based on skin color..
 
P

Paul_S

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mypetcow said:
Just like my comparison yours isn't 100% correct regarding who is a tax payer and who contributes how much to government income.

Everyone in SA is a tax payer...everyone. It doesn't have to be income tax necessairily. VAT is...Value Added Tax. Every time someone buys something in a shop they pay VAT.
Click to expand...

That may be correct but I think it's fair to say that the majority of South African's pay very little in the way of taxes. Most of the basic food items are VAT exempt so the only VAT they're paying is on "luxury" items.
Or take a look at the R90 billion per year taxi industry which only pays R5 million tax per year (0.000055 % tax) and are threatening government to provide transport subsidies and remove fuel levies.

I think the generalization is still accurate - the vast majority pay very little tax if any. A small handful of hardworking middle class are keeping the entire country afloat. Taxing them some more will just cause that tax pool to dry up.
 
TEXTILE GUY

TEXTILE GUY

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mypetcow said:
Just like my comparison yours isn't 100% correct regarding who is a tax payer and who contributes how much to government income.

Everyone in SA is a tax payer...everyone. It doesn't have to be income tax necessairily. VAT is...Value Added Tax. Every time someone buys something in a shop they pay VAT.
Companies also pay corporate tax.
There is also import tax on various products.
Also excise tax...i.e. when you make beer, wine, gin etc.

So as much as I would like to have pity that you and 5.2m other fellow South Africans are shouldering the majority of the tax revenue for government I can rest assured that you probably are not.

Also creating "an environment conducive to employment" is nice on paper but what do you do with the people who don't have any employment in the mean time? Hunger games? Let them die? I would think not. Rather support them a little and thus enable the creation of "an environment conducive to employment". Last time I checked hungry people make for bad workers.
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Okee dokee.

If you say so.
 
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TEXTILE GUY

TEXTILE GUY

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wingnut771 said:
Everytime you post something you make me think of this guy:
View attachment 1357197
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Yeah - I am seriously concerned that SA is on the skids.

When the ANC starts telling the ANC that we are headed for the cliff, when business no longer wants to support their imbizos and conferences and whenever they propose a new tax, well, these are signs that something different needs to happen. The fact that the ANC support base is dropping tells me that I am not alone in wanting things to change. The fact that high net worth individuals are repatriating funds and looking at leaving is also a concern - because they contribute more to tax than I do or the poor ou in the township, and if they stop paying, someone has to make up the shortfall.

If we accept the status quo - we should accept that the trajectory will remain the same. If that's the way someone wants go - good luck to them.

My biggest worry isnt today - its the next few years.

Stats SA reports that over 60% of people in the 15 - 24 age bracket are unemployed. That means they are not in the tax net today. 40 odd % in the 25 -35 age group are unemployed - not in the tax net. Who knows when they will be.

Aside from taxes, SA is seeing a huge inflation - which puts a fiscal drag on your earnings. Tax takes no pity on this. The value of your earnings is eroding. If people in SA are happy with that - fine - its their earnings. Personally, I am not.

Considering I pay tax in three countries, of which SA is by far the highest by % contribution - I can see that SA folks are being reamed. If they are happy with that - again - no sweat. I just dont like the rate of tax I pay in SA.

Something needs to change - well in mind anyway.
 
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