Record signing for Cardiff City, vanishes together with plane

thestaggy

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#41
So the salvage operation as a whole has now been deemed "over" after the location of the wreckage and the recovery of one body?

I get that conditions must be incredibly tough what with the depth the plane is sitting at and couple that with adverse weather, but without the plane, then you’re just speculating. They’ll be able to rule things out and rule things in - mechanical failure, and those sorts of things.
Those are the normal processes for any crash so you would think that it is imperative that the plane is recovered.
What is the point of finding it without following through and doing the recovery?
Money.

The operation to locate the plane was privately funded through donations and that cost over £350,000. It could be reasonably expected that hiring the ship and crew, locating the wreck, recovering the body and time spent at sea has already eaten in to that 350k.
 

Gordon_R

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#42
So the salvage operation as a whole has now been deemed "over" after the location of the wreckage and the recovery of one body?

I get that conditions must be incredibly tough what with the depth the plane is sitting at and couple that with adverse weather, but without the plane, then you’re just speculating. They’ll be able to rule things out and rule things in - mechanical failure, and those sorts of things.

Those are the normal processes for any crash so you would think that it is imperative that the plane is recovered.
What is the point of finding it without following through and doing the recovery?
Air accident investigations are done on a priority basis, and not for the 'enlightenment' of the general public. Priorities do not include the perceived financial or news value of the passenger on board.

That (obsolete) model of aircraft has had plenty of crashes over the years, and very little will be learned from detailed examination of the wreckage. Much more will be learned from checking the pilot's credentials for night flying (or lack thereof).

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-46#Accidents_and_incidents

Accidents and incidents
As of January 2019, 225 accidents had been reported in the Aviation Safety Network wiki database, including 106 hull losses, causing 219 fatalities. Hull losses represent 9% of the 1177 PA-46s produced from 2002 through 2017.
Agree with @thestaggy.

Edit: The ship that was used for undersea investigation is massively expensive, normally used for deep-sea drilling pipeline work: http://www.geoxyz.eu/files/geoocean3.pdf
 
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eg2505

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Mar 12, 2008
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#43
So the salvage operation as a whole has now been deemed "over" after the location of the wreckage and the recovery of one body?

I get that conditions must be incredibly tough what with the depth the plane is sitting at and couple that with adverse weather, but without the plane, then you’re just speculating. They’ll be able to rule things out and rule things in - mechanical failure, and those sorts of things.
Those are the normal processes for any crash so you would think that it is imperative that the plane is recovered.
What is the point of finding it without following through and doing the recovery?
well it isnt MH370 for one, this carried 2 people,
I dont think the AAIB in the UK considers this a priority,
 

Gordon_R

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#46
So the salvage operation as a whole has now been deemed "over" after the location of the wreckage and the recovery of one body?
I already guessed that it must have been Sala's body that was found, and I somehow don't think they are going to crowdfund another 300K to look for the remains of the pilot. There is a long tradition of burial at sea, and leaving things as they are.
 

thestaggy

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#47
I already guessed that it must have been Sala's body that was found, and I somehow don't think they are going to crowdfund another 300K to look for the remains of the pilot. There is a long tradition of burial at sea, and leaving things as they are.
Would be pointless trying to locate him, IMO. By the sounds of things the plane broke up and with the sea being rough, who knows where his body could've drifted off to.
 

Cius

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#48
Private single engine planes crash far too often for my liking. Not a fan of them.

If your car engine fails its a problem but you are still on solid ground. You can coast to a stop. If your single engine plane loses power you are mostly screwed, especially if you are over the ocean.
 

Gordon_R

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#49
Private single engine planes crash far too often for my liking. Not a fan of them.

If your car engine fails its a problem but you are still on solid ground. You can coast to a stop. If your single engine plane loses power you are mostly screwed, especially if you are over the ocean.
Private twin engine aircraft crash just as often. Since they are mostly underpowered, the 2nd engine just guides the plane to a better crash location.

Single turbine engines are far more reliable, but they cost ten times as much to purchase and maintain.

Edit: The PA-46 that crashed comes in a turbine version. You can see the price difference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-46
 

ForceFate

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#50
Private single engine planes crash far too often for my liking. Not a fan of them.

If your car engine fails its a problem but you are still on solid ground. You can coast to a stop. If your single engine plane loses power you are mostly screwed, especially if you are over the ocean.
I wish they had brakes like they do in cartoons.

RIP to the 2
 

Segg

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#51
Private twin engine aircraft crash just as often. Since they are mostly underpowered, the 2nd engine just guides the plane to a better crash location.

Single turbine engines are far more reliable, but they cost ten times as much to purchase and maintain.

Edit: The PA-46 that crashed comes in a turbine version. You can see the price difference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-46
+1

Having seen the monstrosity of a piston engine that powers the Malibu, I'm in no way surprised Piper decided to throw in a PT6 in the Meridian - the idea that the guy got into a single engine piston OVER WATER is insane, especially with a piston engine pushed to its technological limits such as that

Most twin engine pistons have their certified one engine climb away altitude, in Johannesburg on most days the density altitude is higher than this ceiling - so one engine quitting effectively means the other carries you to the accident site, there are some exceptions to this such as the Piper Seneca 2 and up - I think their single engine ceiling is something like 13 000ft, but at only a couple hundred fpm its a slow climb out

Airliners (in SA aircraft with 19 seats or more) are required to be able to continue takeoff and climb out at a sufficient rate with one engine inoperable - so for most of us there's nothing to worry about
 

Gordon_R

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#52
Having seen the monstrosity of a piston engine that powers the Malibu, I'm in no way surprised Piper decided to throw in a PT6 in the Meridian - the idea that the guy got into a single engine piston OVER WATER is insane, especially with a piston engine pushed to its technological limits such as that

Most twin engine pistons have their certified one engine climb away altitude, in Johannesburg on most days the density altitude is higher than this ceiling - so one engine quitting effectively means the other carries you to the accident site, there are some exceptions to this such as the Piper Seneca 2 and up - I think their single engine ceiling is something like 13 000ft, but at only a couple hundred fpm its a slow climb out

Airliners (in SA aircraft with 19 seats or more) are required to be able to continue takeoff and climb out at a sufficient rate with one engine inoperable - so for most of us there's nothing to worry about
+1

Off topic, but the Convair crash near Wonderboom had the same issues. Even a 4 engine piston-powered aircraft can suffer the same fate, with 3 good engines: https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/airplane-crash-in-pretoria-east.964255/

Aviation safety has come a very long way, at great cost over the years...
 

Gordon_R

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#55
I get that conditions must be incredibly tough what with the depth the plane is sitting at and couple that with adverse weather, but without the plane, then you’re just speculating. They’ll be able to rule things out and rule things in - mechanical failure, and those sorts of things.

Those are the normal processes for any crash so you would think that it is imperative that the plane is recovered. What is the point of finding it without following through and doing the recovery?
This is a report of a similar crash investigation, but without a 'famous' person on board: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=157718

The French authorities initiated overdue action when the aircraft failed to arrive at Le Touquet. Search and rescue operations located wreckage on the surface of the sea in the vicinity of the last radar return.

Small sections of the aircraft recovered later from the sea surface indicated that it experienced a high-energy impact with the surface. The aircraft was being flown in conditions of low cloud or sea fog with little or no discernable horizon. The pilot did not have an instrument or IMC rating. The investigation did not determine the cause of the accident.
 

The Voice

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#56
Nantes (his former club) are demanding full payment.

Cardiff City may be able to claim insurance to offset their loss.
Apparently Cardiff hadn't even paid the first instalment because of an issue with the paperwork. Bit of a weird case, really, and I guess it all depends on the super tiny small print.

Imagine you buy a car, COD, and the truck delivering it to your house burns out after an accident on the highway with your car in still in it. Would you still pay for it? No keys, no cash, right?

Regardless, a sad story altogether. RIP Sala.
 

Gordon_R

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#59
Completely off topic, but here is an almost identical model which wiped out in the Alps yesterday. Live video included: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=221641

The Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage suffered a runway excursion on landing at Courchevel Altiport, France. The aircraft was not able to stop on the runway and continued past the end, into a snow berm. Four of the five occupants were slightly injured. The Courchevel firefighters sent them to the station's medical office. The plane was probably severely damaged.
 
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