Renewables won’t save SA from power woes - Germany learnt that painfully, says Mantashe

[rvZA]

South Africa’s energy minister dismissed the notion that renewable electricity can bring an end to years of load shedding, pointing to Europe’s pivot back to the use of fossil fuels as evidence of the constraints of using green energy.

Solar and wind plants could be used to supplement coal, gas and nuclear power generation, but had limitations when it came to meeting South Africa’s needs, such as supplying mines, Mineral Resources and Energy Minister Gwede Mantashe said.

“The excitement of moving from coal to renewables is becoming a myth,” Mantashe, a former miner and labour-union leader, said in an August 30 interview in his office in Pretoria, the capital. “Many think that renewables are the so-called saviour, and we know that it is not. Germany has learnt that painfully.”

South Africa relies on coal to generate more than 80% of its electricity, and has been subjected to intermittent outages since 2008 because state utility Eskom can’t meet demand from its old and poorly maintained plants. While the government has pledged to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050 and taken steps to increase purchases of renewable power from private producers, it’s encountered opposition from Mantashe and unions who represent coal miners and fear job losses.

The argument for the continued use of fossil fuels has gained traction as Europe grapples with its worst energy crisis in decades, with Russia down-scaling natural gas deliveries to the region, France contending with nuclear power-plant outages and electricity prices reaching record highs.

Renewables won’t save SA from power woes - Germany learnt that painfully, says Mantashe | Business

South Africa’s energy minister dismissed the notion that renewable electricity can bring an end to years of load shedding, pointing to Europe’s pivot back to the use of fossil fuels as evidence of the constraints of using green energy.

www.news24.com

 

[rvZA]

Thank god these people are waking up. But, that being said, South Africa played a critical role in China's plan in collapsing Germany and many other EU countries from 1994 onwards.

 

[3WA]

Okay Gwede, then go ahead and deregulate the industry. By your own logic, the coal industry that you’re trying to protect will be fine.

 

[Acid0]

Well we left it in your hands the past 20 odd years and we learnt the hard way to and that is why we are where we are now

 

[Johnatan56]

As usual rvZA quoting a source that is wrong. Germany/Europe hasn't actually transitioned fully to renewables yet, coal/lignite is still the second largest source of power (after wind).

Mantashe also has a vested interest in coal.

Besides that, South Africa has among the best conditions for renewable in the world, anything built there will have a better output than in Germany.

The entire problem everywhere is that it's all still in a state of transition. That random Musk quote in the article is also stupid, full quote:

“At this time, we actually need more oil and gas, not less,” Musk said Monday during an energy conference in Norway, adding that he’s not someone to “demonize” the fossil fuels. At the same time, “we must have a clear path to a sustainable energy future.”
[...]
Musk said the transition to a sustainable economy should be “as fast as possible,” adding that ocean wind has “massive untapped potential” and that he’s also a proponent of nuclear energy.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

That said, Musk is far from an energy expert.

 

[zolly]

Gwede's argument has so many holes, even if he does have some good points. Let's start with his only good point: we do need energy diversity, but not as much as he thinks we do.

To his other points. We are not Germany. Very different weather and climate, and we are much better positioned for tech like solar compared to the Germans. If he was honest (which he's not) he'd also talk about Vietnam, who now have an excess of energy due to their massive renewables ramp up. They literally have had to tell people to turn off their panels because they have too much power. This is what a heavy push towards renewables could achieve, and it could be achieved in a year!

But we all know gwede had to protect his coal buddies and the money he and the ANC are getting.

 

[surface]

Gwede's argument has so many holes, even if he does have some good points. Let's start with his only good point: we do need energy diversity, but not as much as he thinks we do.

To his other points. We are not Germany. Very different weather and climate, and we are much better positioned for tech like solar compared to the Germans. If he was honest (which he's not) he'd also talk about Vietnam, who now have an excess of energy due to their massive renewables ramp up. They literally have had to tell people to turn off their panels because they have too much power. This is what a heavy push towards renewables could achieve, and it could be achieved in a year!

But we all know gwede had to protect his coal buddies and the money he and the ANC are getting.

All decent arguments but their coal buddies can become their renewable buddies as well OR they can strike deal with new renewable buddies. It is not like renewable companies are run by dalai lama.

 

[ForceFate]

South Africa's conditions are vastly different from those of Germany.

 

[rvZA]

South Africa's conditions are vastly different from those of Germany.

Yes, here we will all die when they move to renewables. Germans may still survive somehow or the other.

 

[ForceFate]

Yes, here we will all die when they move to renewables. Germans may still survive somehow or the other.

/Facepalm

 

[GrootVoet]

Gwede is only pro coal for political reasons and that is to keep those BEE mines and trucking companies going.

 

[grok]

Quoting Europe & the rest of the world when it suits their agenda, but not when democracy & governance is discussed, oh no then Africa is unique and cannot be compared to the western paradigm.

Morons & idiots, clowns & circuses.. and the corrupt.

 

[backstreetboy]

Lol Africa has 320 days of sunshine a year. Pull another one. Going with renewables is a no brainer.

 

[Okty]

All decent arguments but their coal buddies can become their renewable buddies as well OR they can strike deal with new renewable buddies. It is not like renewable companies are run by dalai lama.

There is much more money opportunities with coal value chain than with renewables for Gwede's pals.

You can't really have mines on the sun with logistics to the solar plant etc.

A lot of "buddies" will be left out of the deals if SA went renewables.

 

[xumwun]

Lol Africa has 320 days of sunshine a year. Pull another one. Going with renewables is a no brainer.

Still that pesky not working at night problem

 

[ForceFate]

Still that pesky not working at night problem

Demand is lower at night.

 

[charlieharper]

Demand is lower at night.

Well, demand is very high at night 5pm - 9pm but then super low 10pm - 5am.

Check the chart at

Power Alert

 

[TelkomUseless]

Renewables won’t save SA from power woes - Germany learnt that painfully, says Mantashe | Business

South Africa’s energy minister dismissed the notion that renewable electricity can bring an end to years of load shedding, pointing to Europe’s pivot back to the use of fossil fuels as evidence of the constraints of using green energy.

www.news24.com

Tell me you got fingers in the coal industry without telling me you got fingers in the coal industry...

 

[zolly]

All decent arguments but their coal buddies can become their renewable buddies as well OR they can strike deal with new renewable buddies.

There is much more money opportunities with coal value chain than with renewables for Gwede's pals.

A lot of "buddies" will be left out of the deals if SA went renewables.

Came here to say this. A lot of BEE millionaires/billionaires have spent significant amounts of money investing in the coal industry. They can't afford to lose out on these investments or simply don't want to incur costs to move to a new industry. And as pointed out above, you don't need trucks to move "fuel" for renewable energy. It literally comes out of the sky or out of the water. There are also MANY other middlemen who don't want to see their free money disappear.

ANC will never do what's best for the country. They will always do what's best for themselves, their friends, and their backers.

Edit. It will be expensive for South Africa, but we should be moving away from centralised energy to distributed energy and energy independence. If someone can afford to go solar and never pay a cent for electricity again, we should be incentivising that. If they can feed back into the grid, incentivise that. We should basically be winding Eskom down and moving away from this archaic way of doing energy. And yes, I know we'll end up paying for it, but we're paying for it right now. Better to shuffle Eskom off into the history books and have electricity than to keep on trying to resuscitate a dying entity.

 

[ForceFate]

Well, demand is very high at night 5pm - 9pm but then super low 10pm - 5am.

Check the chart at

Power Alert

My post was a comparison to average demand during the day vs during the night but I fully understand and accept your point and correction.